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[–] 139 points 1 day ago (9 children)

People who live longer:

People who drink a glass of wine every night.

People who buy organic and cook whole foods at home.

People who spend 30+ minutes a day being activr/at the gym.

People who get 9+ hours of sleep every night.

People who have less chronic stress.

People who get regular checkups/screenings at the doctor.

So... rich people that have the time and can afford to do all of those things or have them done for them.

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  • [–] 46 points 23 hours ago (2 children)

    The glass of wine is likely due to a selection bias in Tea Total people. Most people who are completely sober, are so either because they are recovering alcoholics, or have other health issues.

    Most people who are healthy and have no prior alcoholism issues drink at least occasionaly, which introduces a selection bias favouring people with health issues as strict non drinkers, which causes not drinking at all to be correlated with worse health than drinking occasionally.

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  • [–] 7 points 16 hours ago*

    That's teetotal, nothing to do with the nice hot cuppa

    Also last time I saw teetotalers being less healthy than occasional drinkers was decades ago before never drinking became normal among the youth as they came of age

    Back then the only reason to not drink was to treat alcoholism or a serious problem. Now people abstain because their friends do

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  • [–] 17 points 23 hours ago (3 children)

    Idk... a lot of gen Z people I know just don't drink at all

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  • [–] 58 points 22 hours ago (1 child)

    OP is referring to the j-curve historically seen in studies about drinking. Because researchers didn't control for people who stopped drinking after years of abuse or people who couldn't drink because of other health issues, it looked like having 0 drinks per day led to worse health outcomes than 1-2 drinks per day. Because of that, many health organizations spent decades telling people that 1-2 drinks per day was better for you than 0 drinks per day.

    Someone finally controlled for those variables a few years ago, and the j-curve vanished. Most health organizations now say they're is no amount of alcohol that is safe to consume.

    So it's got nothing to do with Gen Z drinking habit specifically, and the science has been corrected since. But a lot of people still internalized and parrot the "1-2 drinks is healthy" thing.

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  • [–] 4 points 21 hours ago (3 children)

    No amount of alcohol is safe? Is that like saying no amount of driving is safe?

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  • [–] 6 points 16 hours ago (1 child)

    Sure. Any driving you do increases your risk of death. But it's likely you need to drive for other reasons that reduce your risk of death (like buying food).

    Drinking is different because no one needs to drink.

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  • [–] 2 points 20 hours ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 18 hours ago (1 child)

    Exactly!

    I meant that plenty of people drink reasonable amounts alcohol all the time with no apparent issues.

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  • [–] 5 points 18 hours ago (1 child)

    It means that any amount of alcohol increases the odds of you dying sooner or having other negative health effects sooner (which will lead to you dying sooner). There is no amount that won't increase those odds. It says nothing about how much any given drink would impact your life span. I'm not saying it's negligible or significant, but I can't be bothered to look it up.

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  • [–] -1 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

    Come on, you have to say it's positively correlated rather than causative that's the whole point of the thread.

    This isn't a hill I want to die on, but I don't think it's a meaningful claim without a bit more nuance.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 hour ago

    No, it's causal.

    We know the mechanisms by which alcohol causes negative health effects, to basically all the systems in the body.

    It's not a particularly strong effect for the occasional drinker, but the degree of confidence we have in the correlation is very strong, and we have an underlying model of the biological mechanisms that cause poor health outcomes.

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  • [–] 3 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

    Well, the WHO puts it in the same category as tobacco. Is tobacco just strongly correlated to cancer? And I don't need to say it is causative, because The Lancet did.

    You can stack that data up against your anecdotes however you like.

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  • [–] 1 point 14 hours ago

    I wonder if this is something that changed over time. As in preservatives and all sorts of chemicals being added to tobacco or alcohol. For example, I can smoke Japanese cigarettes without a problem. I've smoked Vietnam era MRE cigarettes, Old Ukrainian unfiltered cigarettes. But I can't smoke US made ones since around 2007, they make me sick and taste like ash.

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  • [–] 5 points 20 hours ago* (1 child)

    because they can't afford it. prices are up, incomes are down. Gen Z starting incomes aren't much higher than the start incomes of people from 10-20 year ago, but booze prices are triple what they were, i've actually seen them start to come down recently because well, even older folks can't afford $20 cocktails or $20 four packs of beer. when I was 25 $20 got you a 24 pack of craft beer. or a 48 of the cheap shit.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 hour ago

    That might have something to do with it. But gen-z seems to have more a purity culture than millennials and gen-x had.

    Many are very into exercise and fitness from a very young age. Control their diets. Sleep super early, get up early.

    They are going less to clubs (and shitty dive bars). Doing less drugs. Having less sex.

    You can say its all because of money. But broke teenagers and young adults of previous generations had their fun, went out, destroyed their bodies. You know, it can be REALLY cheap to get fucked up and well, get fucked or fuck.

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  • [–] 6 points 22 hours ago

    Yeah but these (usually flawed) studies that have wormed their way into the public consciousness were done long before gen z was drinking age. From up-to-date information it's pretty clear that any amount of any kind of alcohol is quite bad for you. Obviously increasing with quantity.

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  • [–] 4 points 23 hours ago (7 children)

    How does wine taste? I really wanna taste wine before I die.

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  • [–] 12 points 22 hours ago

    It varies dramatically for different types of wine, even within the broad categories (red, white, rosé, etc.). Some wines are grapier and will be reminiscent of juice you've had. Others are further away from that. Invariably they will taste different if you've never had wine before, even moreso if you've not had alcohol.

    If you are interested in wine for the experience, I'd recommend situations where it's well-paired with food. The best wine I've ever drank has been with good food that complemented it.

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  • [–] 3 points 16 hours ago (1 child)

    They are varied. Red wines have more tannins than white, white wines come in different sweetness, with the less sweet ones described as dry

    If you wanted to try a red wine I would suggest starting on merlot

    I wouldn't recommend drinking an entire bottle in a day. Opened wine can be kept in the fridge for a few days

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  • [–] 2 points 20 hours ago* (1 child)

    If you haven't tried it because you have to avoid alcohol, good news - alcohol free wine is hitting the market.

    Tbh, it's not the most amazing example of wine, but the ones I tried were not awful either. It would give you a good example how wine tastes like.

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  • [–] 1 point 21 hours ago* (1 child)

    Pretty terrible, honestly. My review is: "Ugh, this grape juice has gone really bad!"

    I don't mind the occasional whiskey, and I really like Amaretto ... but IMO, wine is just gross.

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  • [–] 1 point 23 hours ago (1 child)

    Tastes a lot like grapes that have gone off, actually. So just imagine that. Maybe you'll live longer.

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  • [–] 7 points 22 hours ago (3 children)

    Well I don't wanna live longer. I wanna enjoy everything in this life before I die.

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  • [–] 1 point 13 hours ago

    You're not going to "enjoy everything," or even "experience everything," in one lifetime. That said, you should try some things, given an opportunity. And some of the most valuable experiences may well be ones you didn't particularly enjoy. But enjoyment need not make a slave of us, and is also nice.

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  • [–] 3 points 22 hours ago (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 8 hours ago (1 child)

    Well I don't think so cuz it is forced upon us, rather than our conscious choice. For rich, there is no problem though. They drink and party. These laws are implemented only on poor and middle class.

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  • No I just meant I think that wanting to experience life rather than needlessly restricting yourself of everything "unhealthy" to try and gain another day without these experiences is a good philosophy.

    I understand that you are not the one deciding to restrict yourself in this case. That and the unequal enforcement of the law on the rich are both another thing entirely and complete bullshit.

    Hope you get the opportunity to enjoy more out of life, buddy.

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  • [–] -1 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 child)

    No one recommends 9 hours sleep. Humans in the wild (hunter gatherers) sleep about 6 hours. People in the industrialised world sleep about 7 or 8 hours. We don't know whether 8 hours is better or worse than six

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  • [–] 9 points 18 hours ago (1 child)

    I think at that point it just varies too much by individual. Some people are completely fine with 6 hours a night. I am not one of those people.

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  • [–] 1 point 14 hours ago

    I agree. Sitting my yass all day playing video games? Sure, 4-6 hours will be okay. Doing yard work and manual labor in 110 degree weather, I'll see you in 14 hours. Also, I have sleep apnea so I'm used to feeling dead all day.

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