▲ 638 ▼ Police Called on Trans Men Using Women's Restroom As Required By Kansas Law (www.erininthemorning.com) submitted 1 week ago by TRAHR@sh.itjust.works to c/news@lemmy.world 115 comments fedilink hide all child comments “As a trans man, I have the immense privilege of blending in. But these laws force me to choose between safety and obeying the law.”
[–] davetortoise@reddthat.com 35 points 1 week ago (1 child) It's funny because it's barely even malicious compliance, it's just following the law 😭😭 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 20 points 1 week ago (3 children) yes, that's what malicious compliance is permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TheJesusaurus@piefed.ca 0 points 2 days ago (1 child) Point is, in this case it's just compliance. They aren't doing anything other than what they're "supposed to" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 1 point 2 days ago nothing other than doing it maliciously permalink fedilink source parent [–] davetortoise@reddthat.com 13 points 1 week ago (3 children) Well yeah but isn't it usually taking advantage of small technicalities within a law to cause disruption? This is literally taking the law at face value, as it was intended permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Simon_Shitewood@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 week ago Malicious compliance generally doesn't involve technicalities, just following the rules. The maliciousness comes from knowing that following the rules, exactly as they are written down, will cause problems and disruption, and then doing it anyway, allowing the rules to override things like common sense. permalink fedilink source parent [–] luciferofastora@feddit.org 5 points 1 week ago* (1 child) As I understand it, it's generally any form of compliance. Typically, it's abusing technicalities, but what makes it "malicious" is that it subverts the intention behind the rule or order. This law was designed to harass women. The transphobia is the vehicle used to deliver that intent, but for all its bigotry, it clearly isn't the ultimate point. All the discourse is about "protecting (cis-)women", about transfem athletes, and so on. Frankly, I'm not sure the type of politician to push this type of politics even remembers that transmascs exist. Even if they do, it's not like they could do anything about it that wouldn't risk collateral damage among cis-men. Imagine how it would to if you tried to apply the "bathroom genital check" to the gender that invented etiquette about not standing too close to others when pissing. The geriatiric shrimpbearers in power would have a meltdown over the idea of someone manhandling their dick to make sure it's real. (Nothing wrong with a small dick, just with making your insecurity about it someone else's problem.) Now, unlike the transphobia, they can't make the misogyny explicit in the law (or at least they aren't sure they'd get away with it yet, so why risk it?). The law as written technically also applies to transmascs, even though they weren't the target and it realistically would never be enforced against them. Thus, the malicious compliance is that the transmascs carry out the letter of the law rather than its spirit, fully expecting the predictable result and provoking the authorities into tipping their hand. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago For the lawmakers it has an added bonus of being a double bind for transmascs. Passing for cis isn't binary or consistent, every trans guy has to guess what the likelihood is that any time he uses the men's room someone will think he looks trans and call the cops. There is no safe answer for him (trans women have a similar situation). For both trans men and trans women the less likely to get the cops called answer will tend towards men's rooms, but that's only because men are less likely to call the cops on a woman in the men's room. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago (1 child) they are going out of their way to create situations where they follow the law and cause disruption. that makes it malicious. the intent of the rule is irrelevant. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] davetortoise@reddthat.com 2 points 1 week ago Ah okay, fair enough permalink fedilink source parent [–] homura1650@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago (1 child) Malicious compliance is about applying an overly literal interpretation of a rule. There is nothing overly literaral about acting as if a law requiring trans people to use the wrong bathroom requires trans people to use the wrong bathroom. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 week ago that is one method of performing it, yes. that is not the only method. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 20 points 1 week ago (3 children) yes, that's what malicious compliance is permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] TheJesusaurus@piefed.ca 0 points 2 days ago (1 child) Point is, in this case it's just compliance. They aren't doing anything other than what they're "supposed to" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 1 point 2 days ago nothing other than doing it maliciously permalink fedilink source parent [–] davetortoise@reddthat.com 13 points 1 week ago (3 children) Well yeah but isn't it usually taking advantage of small technicalities within a law to cause disruption? This is literally taking the law at face value, as it was intended permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Simon_Shitewood@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 week ago Malicious compliance generally doesn't involve technicalities, just following the rules. The maliciousness comes from knowing that following the rules, exactly as they are written down, will cause problems and disruption, and then doing it anyway, allowing the rules to override things like common sense. permalink fedilink source parent [–] luciferofastora@feddit.org 5 points 1 week ago* (1 child) As I understand it, it's generally any form of compliance. Typically, it's abusing technicalities, but what makes it "malicious" is that it subverts the intention behind the rule or order. This law was designed to harass women. The transphobia is the vehicle used to deliver that intent, but for all its bigotry, it clearly isn't the ultimate point. All the discourse is about "protecting (cis-)women", about transfem athletes, and so on. Frankly, I'm not sure the type of politician to push this type of politics even remembers that transmascs exist. Even if they do, it's not like they could do anything about it that wouldn't risk collateral damage among cis-men. Imagine how it would to if you tried to apply the "bathroom genital check" to the gender that invented etiquette about not standing too close to others when pissing. The geriatiric shrimpbearers in power would have a meltdown over the idea of someone manhandling their dick to make sure it's real. (Nothing wrong with a small dick, just with making your insecurity about it someone else's problem.) Now, unlike the transphobia, they can't make the misogyny explicit in the law (or at least they aren't sure they'd get away with it yet, so why risk it?). The law as written technically also applies to transmascs, even though they weren't the target and it realistically would never be enforced against them. Thus, the malicious compliance is that the transmascs carry out the letter of the law rather than its spirit, fully expecting the predictable result and provoking the authorities into tipping their hand. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago For the lawmakers it has an added bonus of being a double bind for transmascs. Passing for cis isn't binary or consistent, every trans guy has to guess what the likelihood is that any time he uses the men's room someone will think he looks trans and call the cops. There is no safe answer for him (trans women have a similar situation). For both trans men and trans women the less likely to get the cops called answer will tend towards men's rooms, but that's only because men are less likely to call the cops on a woman in the men's room. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago (1 child) they are going out of their way to create situations where they follow the law and cause disruption. that makes it malicious. the intent of the rule is irrelevant. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] davetortoise@reddthat.com 2 points 1 week ago Ah okay, fair enough permalink fedilink source parent [–] homura1650@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago (1 child) Malicious compliance is about applying an overly literal interpretation of a rule. There is nothing overly literaral about acting as if a law requiring trans people to use the wrong bathroom requires trans people to use the wrong bathroom. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 week ago that is one method of performing it, yes. that is not the only method. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] TheJesusaurus@piefed.ca 0 points 2 days ago (1 child) Point is, in this case it's just compliance. They aren't doing anything other than what they're "supposed to" permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 1 point 2 days ago nothing other than doing it maliciously permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 1 point 2 days ago nothing other than doing it maliciously permalink fedilink source parent
[–] davetortoise@reddthat.com 13 points 1 week ago (3 children) Well yeah but isn't it usually taking advantage of small technicalities within a law to cause disruption? This is literally taking the law at face value, as it was intended permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Simon_Shitewood@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 week ago Malicious compliance generally doesn't involve technicalities, just following the rules. The maliciousness comes from knowing that following the rules, exactly as they are written down, will cause problems and disruption, and then doing it anyway, allowing the rules to override things like common sense. permalink fedilink source parent [–] luciferofastora@feddit.org 5 points 1 week ago* (1 child) As I understand it, it's generally any form of compliance. Typically, it's abusing technicalities, but what makes it "malicious" is that it subverts the intention behind the rule or order. This law was designed to harass women. The transphobia is the vehicle used to deliver that intent, but for all its bigotry, it clearly isn't the ultimate point. All the discourse is about "protecting (cis-)women", about transfem athletes, and so on. Frankly, I'm not sure the type of politician to push this type of politics even remembers that transmascs exist. Even if they do, it's not like they could do anything about it that wouldn't risk collateral damage among cis-men. Imagine how it would to if you tried to apply the "bathroom genital check" to the gender that invented etiquette about not standing too close to others when pissing. The geriatiric shrimpbearers in power would have a meltdown over the idea of someone manhandling their dick to make sure it's real. (Nothing wrong with a small dick, just with making your insecurity about it someone else's problem.) Now, unlike the transphobia, they can't make the misogyny explicit in the law (or at least they aren't sure they'd get away with it yet, so why risk it?). The law as written technically also applies to transmascs, even though they weren't the target and it realistically would never be enforced against them. Thus, the malicious compliance is that the transmascs carry out the letter of the law rather than its spirit, fully expecting the predictable result and provoking the authorities into tipping their hand. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago For the lawmakers it has an added bonus of being a double bind for transmascs. Passing for cis isn't binary or consistent, every trans guy has to guess what the likelihood is that any time he uses the men's room someone will think he looks trans and call the cops. There is no safe answer for him (trans women have a similar situation). For both trans men and trans women the less likely to get the cops called answer will tend towards men's rooms, but that's only because men are less likely to call the cops on a woman in the men's room. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago (1 child) they are going out of their way to create situations where they follow the law and cause disruption. that makes it malicious. the intent of the rule is irrelevant. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] davetortoise@reddthat.com 2 points 1 week ago Ah okay, fair enough permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Simon_Shitewood@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 week ago Malicious compliance generally doesn't involve technicalities, just following the rules. The maliciousness comes from knowing that following the rules, exactly as they are written down, will cause problems and disruption, and then doing it anyway, allowing the rules to override things like common sense. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] luciferofastora@feddit.org 5 points 1 week ago* (1 child) As I understand it, it's generally any form of compliance. Typically, it's abusing technicalities, but what makes it "malicious" is that it subverts the intention behind the rule or order. This law was designed to harass women. The transphobia is the vehicle used to deliver that intent, but for all its bigotry, it clearly isn't the ultimate point. All the discourse is about "protecting (cis-)women", about transfem athletes, and so on. Frankly, I'm not sure the type of politician to push this type of politics even remembers that transmascs exist. Even if they do, it's not like they could do anything about it that wouldn't risk collateral damage among cis-men. Imagine how it would to if you tried to apply the "bathroom genital check" to the gender that invented etiquette about not standing too close to others when pissing. The geriatiric shrimpbearers in power would have a meltdown over the idea of someone manhandling their dick to make sure it's real. (Nothing wrong with a small dick, just with making your insecurity about it someone else's problem.) Now, unlike the transphobia, they can't make the misogyny explicit in the law (or at least they aren't sure they'd get away with it yet, so why risk it?). The law as written technically also applies to transmascs, even though they weren't the target and it realistically would never be enforced against them. Thus, the malicious compliance is that the transmascs carry out the letter of the law rather than its spirit, fully expecting the predictable result and provoking the authorities into tipping their hand. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago For the lawmakers it has an added bonus of being a double bind for transmascs. Passing for cis isn't binary or consistent, every trans guy has to guess what the likelihood is that any time he uses the men's room someone will think he looks trans and call the cops. There is no safe answer for him (trans women have a similar situation). For both trans men and trans women the less likely to get the cops called answer will tend towards men's rooms, but that's only because men are less likely to call the cops on a woman in the men's room. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago For the lawmakers it has an added bonus of being a double bind for transmascs. Passing for cis isn't binary or consistent, every trans guy has to guess what the likelihood is that any time he uses the men's room someone will think he looks trans and call the cops. There is no safe answer for him (trans women have a similar situation). For both trans men and trans women the less likely to get the cops called answer will tend towards men's rooms, but that's only because men are less likely to call the cops on a woman in the men's room. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 week ago (1 child) they are going out of their way to create situations where they follow the law and cause disruption. that makes it malicious. the intent of the rule is irrelevant. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] davetortoise@reddthat.com 2 points 1 week ago Ah okay, fair enough permalink fedilink source parent
[–] davetortoise@reddthat.com 2 points 1 week ago Ah okay, fair enough permalink fedilink source parent
[–] homura1650@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago (1 child) Malicious compliance is about applying an overly literal interpretation of a rule. There is nothing overly literaral about acting as if a law requiring trans people to use the wrong bathroom requires trans people to use the wrong bathroom. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 week ago that is one method of performing it, yes. that is not the only method. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca 1 point 1 week ago that is one method of performing it, yes. that is not the only method. permalink fedilink source parent