homes comments on Linux Desktop Market Share Surpasses 10% in North America

Linux Desktop Market Share Surpasses 10% in North America (linuxiac.com)

submitted 1 month ago by cm0002@lemy.lol to c/linux@programming.dev

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[–] homes@piefed.world 18 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (19 children)

I find it very strange how windows is somewhat more tolerated than macOS on Lemmy, especially considering how windows is unusable shit, and macOS is actually a pretty decent BSD distro— yet, merely mentioning it gets near-universal ire.

Yes, I know that macOS has its downsides, but Windows has a 10,000 times more problems with it, but discussions of it are tolerated

Edit: I wanna thank everybody for taking part in a very insightful discussion. I believe I’ve gotten my answer, or at least gotten much closer to one.

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[–] TeaWithDani@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

MacOS is fine. Wouldn't be as maligned if it existed in a vacuum outside the Apple business model.

Its like buying a Thinkpad new... its crazy for that price, but otherwise everything is excellent. Paying $500 for a once $5000 Thinkpad will change your opinion on the sticker shock.

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[–] homes@piefed.world 4 points 1 month ago*

See, I’m speaking of macOS separate from Apple hardware, as a piece of software. But I guess most people don’t see those as separate things.

I hadn’t really considered that.

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[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Short answer: Contempt. I feel nothing but contempt for Apple and its products. They aren't evil but they also aren't good (not the opposite of evil but in the "I think this is worth using" sense).

Long answer: Apple earned their place in my mental category of "polished turd" decades ago with their single button mice and their tendency to pick form over function. Those colourful iMacs back around 2000 were easily the worst computers I've ever used, between the mouse that was perfectly round (so you couldn't tell its rotation without looking at it or at least feeling for the wire), the slowness (simple assignments took forever), and instability (I just avoided using them at all after the nth assignment was lost after an hour of work).

And then they added "trendy walled garden" with the iPhone and serve as a reminder of how many people fall for marketing bullshit with how many people seem to prefer the shittier locked down option while also acting smug about it.

So personally, Mac was labelled irrelevant back during the Win vs Mac wars, before MS really embraced the enshitification and thought they had to make something people wanted to use to sell it rather than do whatever and most people go along because inertia. And now that MS has embraced the enshitification, my own mental model for them is basically "just like Mac except Mac seems like they are trying to be good but just have a very different idea of what 'good' is, while MS isn't even trying to be good and pursue other means of revenue".

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[–] homes@piefed.world 4 points 1 month ago* (2 children)

So, the idea of a product they made 25 years ago, not actually the reality of anything they’re doing today… That’s what informs your entire opinion of Apple now?

I get what you’re coming from, I just don’t find that a rational position to hold anymore.

I mean, I don’t disagree with you about those original iMacs, but even back then, they still made some pretty great other computers that were very popular, too. That was just a single product at the time. They also brought UNIX/BSD to the masses with Mac OS X while massively contributing to FOSS projects (and still do).

Again, I’m not denying that Apple has certainly done some terrible things and is a pretty shitty company with their proprietary, bullshit, etc., etc. etc. And I’m liking macOS less and less with each iteration, and my next computer very likely won’t be a Mac for the first time in probably 30 years.

I just find it weird that, between Windows and macOS, one is clearly far better than the other, but macOS gets far more hate here than windows seems to. So much so, that even discussing it is hardly tolerated. but you’ve kind of answered my question a little bit – it’s not macOS itself, it’s how much people hate Apple. But even still, isn’t Microsoft so much worse than Apple?

Maybe it’s for the same reason that red hat and SuSE are rarely spoken of around here: it’s some sort of some sort of same-side betrayal by Apple?

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[–] anzo@programming.dev 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

The only acknowledgement I grant macos/ osx and windows is that their decisions are in the desktop environments we use on a Linux system. That's for good, (and maybe bad.?)

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[–] homes@piefed.world 1 point 1 month ago

I’m not exactly sure what you mean by that

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[–] phlegmy@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 month ago (6 children)

Windows has decades of existing software that still works. Mac OS blocked 32bit software, and will soon drop rosetta 2 to block all x64 software too.
Windows has more drivers available.
macOS is bsd based and has a posix terminal, but windows has wsl.

Personally I hate both, but if I had to pick one, I'd choose the one with the most supported software/hardware.
You're going to need to tweak both to get a decent user experience anyway.

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[–] homes@piefed.world 1 point 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children)

Windows has decades of existing software that still works. Mac OS blocked 32bit software, and will soon drop rosetta 2 to block all x64 software

I don’t use 30 year-old software. Everything I use has been updated a long time ago to be 64 bit compatible. And Rosetta will still work for another year at least. This is not a problem I will ever have to deal with.

You’re arguing theoreticals that will never be a practical problem for me, nor for the vast majority of people, so you’re spinning up your own worries for no practical reason other than to argue, which I consider pretty silly and petty. If you want to torture yourself, fine, but I have a life to live.

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[–] phlegmy@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago (4 children)

That's fine if you aren't affected, but many people were and will be again soon.

Games are a notable example of 'timeless' software that can still be relevant decades after release.
And VST plugins for DAW's.
And programs you could buy outright without a subscription (eg adobe suite).

Arm support in macOS has only been around since 2020, which is much more recent than 30 years ago.
It's not hypothetical either, apple publicly announced they will begin removing rosetta support with macOS 28.
Whether or not that personally affects you does not determine how others feel about it.

I wasn't trying to be silly or petty, just providing a possible explanation for why people might prefer windows over macOS.
You seem to have taken that personally for whatever reason.

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[–] homes@piefed.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children)

That's fine if you aren't affected, but many people were and will be again soon.

Yes, and we’re allowed to exist and voice our opinions once in a while without constantly being constantly dogpiled to death.

Oh, and whine about arm support only being in macOS since 2020– when Apple started developing their own arm chips, lol— what a coinkidink!

And you’re the only one who used the word “hypothetical”, so don’t try to reframe my discussion. i’m not trying to reframe how anyone feels about anything. Project your dissatisfaction elsewhere. I have only presented facts. Clearly, you have your own unresolved feelings, and I am not responsible for any of that.

Ugh… take your decades of tiresome baggage elsewhere. I have nothing to do with any of that crap. and it certainly has no place in this discussion.

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[–] phlegmy@sh.itjust.works -1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I never said you couldn't exist or voice your opinion.
You said you found it strange that people are more accepting of windows so I provided a possible explanation for why. Simple as that.

It's ok to disagree. I don't care what OS or software you use, that's your choice to make.

What I meant by apple only adding arm support in 2020 is that 2020 software isn't that old, yet will soon stop working on the latest macOS because it was compiled before macOS supported arm.

My bad for unintentionally changing 'theoretical' to 'hypothetical'. The fact still stands that it's not a theoretical or hypothetical issue, it's happened multiple times in the past and will happen again soon.

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[–] homes@piefed.world 2 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

yet will soon stop working on the latest macOS because it was compiled before macOS supported arm.

Yeah, and who is that gonna affect? Tell me if the tens of millions of people who are gonna become homeless because of this?

Nobody. That’s who. Exactly 0 people will be negatively affected by this, because everybody under this umbrella will already have transitioned to ARM processors themselves, and will never notice the difference.

You’re twisting yourself into pretzels to invent a problem that doesn’t exist just to create an argument so you position yourself as an aggrieved victim, where no victims actually exist

You invented a problem that doesn’t exist just so you could make an argument where and you invented yourself as the only victim. The only problem: none of this is actually real. And I’m here to call you out for your bullshit.

You’re fucking exhausting, and I’m tired of you. You’re blocked.

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[–] phlegmy@sh.itjust.works 1 point 1 month ago

Like I said in my earlier examples...
People who play videogames, people who use plugins with their DAW's, people who purchased software before it became subscription-based.
Literally anyone who wants to continue running mac software built before 2020 will be affected.

I doubt anyone will become homeless over it, but that was never the argument being made.

And I believe you when you say you won't personally be affected by it, but that doesn't mean nobody else in the world will want to run mac apps that are >7 years old.

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[–] kewjo@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago (5 children)

on my work Mac I have to download a third party app that has to run in the background to disable the Music app from launching when my earbuds connect via Bluetooth. people hate Mac more because they generally force features on you that are just weird, and when i close a window, i want to actually close it.

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[–] homes@piefed.world 1 point 1 month ago (4 children)

I’ve been running Macs for 30 years, and I use Bluetooth headphones too, I’ve never had that happen before. There has to be some setting somewhere that’s causing this to happen, and I assure you it’s not on by default.

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[–] kewjo@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago* (3 children)

i couldn't find any setting, unless my company policies block it. it is a new m4 macbook so maybe it's a newer thing? if i use my headset for work calls it launches everytime and if it reconnects opens it again. their own forum points users to install notunes via homebrew and set that to run at login. even if this were a setting it doesn't even make sense for being a default except as a dark pattern to push people into their stack. you can't even uninstall the music app or default apps.

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[–] homes@piefed.world 1 point 1 month ago (2 children)

I assure you, this is not default behavior. I use three different pairs of Bluetooth headphones on my new M4, MacBook Pro, and it does not do this. I’ll dig around and see if I can find the setting which may be stupidly hidden somewhere, and I’ll let you know if I find it. I can definitely understand how this could be extremely annoying.

What brand of headphones are you using?

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[–] kewjo@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 child)

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255008235

this thread goes back to 2023, most of what i gathered is play/pause signals will open music if there's no other media open. and it looked like most of the settings get reset on updates or just don't work for some. i don't care too much though its my work machine and gave up trying to fight bad software and just quarantine it so it has as little impact as possible.

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[–] homes@piefed.world 1 point 1 month ago

Seems like a bug that some people experience. I guess I’m just one of the lucky ones that do not.

I’m very sorry that you experience this.

This is one of the weird quirky things that happens sometimes with Apple stuff – – a small group of people were experience a persistent quirky behavior/bug, and because 95% of people don’t experience it, it will largely go underdressed.

I fully understand and appreciate how such a tiny thing can become an aggressively, huge annoyance.

But something you brought up in your first comment: it generates an entire ecosystem of FOSS (sometimes not, looking at you iStat devs) developers who create fascinating little software projects to deal with these little annoyances and quirks, and almost all of these little software projects are incredibly clever and innovative, and can sometimes be software developers first projects. Over the decades, I have come to lovingly refer to them as “crack developers” because they develop software to fill the cracks in the otherwise “flawless” macOS façade.

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