deliriousdreams comments on A Majority of Americans Now Support Seizing Wealth From AI Industry

[–] deliriousdreams@fedia.io 3 points 3 months ago (6 children)

Yeah. Thats the thing about all the investment. I don't want my 401K or any of anyone's retirement invested in AI either but that's been happening since the beginning by proxy.

So now the government wants to let them gamble with my taxes too and everyone should know the plan is to leave regular people holding the bag and paying off the debt. Debt larger than most countries GDP. The rich gambled. Let them lose.

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[–] tmyakal@infosec.pub 1 point 3 months ago (5 children)

But Bernie's been advocating for this, guys! You know, Bernie! He's surely not another octogenarian career politician with a limited understanding of the tech sector!

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[–] deliriousdreams@fedia.io 1 point 3 months ago (4 children)

Did you read the proposal?

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[–] tmyakal@infosec.pub 1 point 3 months ago (3 children)

I listened to a pretty comprehensive interview Bernie had regarding his proposal a few weeks ago. My big takeaway was that he fundamentally misunderstands the technology as it currently exists, and while he's skeptical of the motives of these tech CEOs, he's completely bought in on their nonsense claims of fully automating the workforce.

AKA an octogenarian suggesting legislation on a technology he doesn't understand. This is a thing that has bitten Americans in the ass countless times in the last four decades.

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[–] deliriousdreams@fedia.io 2 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I wanted to make sure I wasn't talking to someone who just went off the base headlines without actually looking into the proposal first.

I don't agree with Bernie Sanders' plan. It was obvious to me when I read the first article that he doesn't understand the technology, but the more important thing is that he doesn't seem to have followed the money. The way stocks and services are being traded to inflate some companies while keeping other failing companies solvent is the whole reason this is a bubble. What the proposal doesn't seem to account for (that I've read) is that if this tech doesn't become profitable in a mainstream way the tax payers (who are already very likely to lose savings, retirement investments, and jobs) will still be on the hook for the debt and will actually see no benefit from the short term pump of the stock in these companies.

I voted for Bernie in the primary. I think he and a lot of other politicians are too old for the roles they currently hold. But if I'm honest I don't think this is just about old people not understanding tech. At least, it's not exclusively old people. There are so many people my age and younger who don't understand this tech or the economics and business practices behind it, and they are more than willing to trust it blindly.

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[–] tmyakal@infosec.pub 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

if this doesn't become profitable in a mainstream way

This is exactly what I meant by Bernie being caught up in tech CEO bluster. He can't imagine that this shit doesn't change the world in monumental and lucrative ways. He's talked about how the tech people he's spoken to don't like his proposal because they don't want to share the profits, but I haven't seen any CEO make public comments one way or the other. With everyone involved knowing it's a bubble, I'm sure they secretly love to insure their investments with public money. They just can't say it out loud or the bubble might pop early.

And, yes, people of every age are tech illiterate. But overwhelmingly the elderly are the people crafting legislation about tech. Old age is heavily associated with cognitive decline, which makes it harder to understand, examine, and interrogate unfamiliar ideas, such as "AI" or "Whatever the Fuck Private Equity is Doing Right Now." Bernie's a smart guy, and it seems like he's still sharper than a lot of his contemporaries, but you can't fight nature. I'd rather see him cosponsor legislation with a younger senator and mentor the next generation of congress, instead of hanging on to the bitter end and giving us half-baked policy like this.

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[–] deliriousdreams@fedia.io 2 points 3 months ago

Yes. Agreed. But it's the Business aspect of this and his inability to understand that that I question. We have seen this before with government bailouts.

It seems like the idea is that if every American owns a piece of the pie so to speak, then we actually get something from bailing these companies out or rather insuring them with our tax dollars.

But what he can't seem to see is that this is exactly what businesses would want if they know they exist in a bubble.

We accuse a lot of politicians of being on the take, or invested in businesses that are a conflict of interest, and I think that assumptions clouds our ability to really honestly look at their poor understanding of business and economics.

I have to assume he thinks that these companies will pay us back for the bailout. That's pretty much what happened (supposedly) with Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Even though they didn't receive a loan and there wasn't really any language in the agreement that legally bound them to pay back the bailout. But really what happened is the government just took over these companies (via conservatorship), and so even though the bailout has been ended, we haven't really gotten our money back, the damage goes very far beyond the monetary bailout, and the housing market is worse than ever. The loan market is worse than ever.

So what I'm saying is, the terrible business acumen/literacy of politicians combined with the vast majority of them using elected office to further enrich themselves is often overshadowed by how tech literate they are and one of those things is far more dangerous in the long term. Because most young people might be tech literate to some degree but they aren't business savvy by and large so electing younger officials doesn't solve this problem.

Bernie doesn't have to be tech literate. But he should at the very least have the pattern recognition to put two and two together and see that this isn't the first time.

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