jj4211 comments on The Force is still with him

[–] jj4211@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago (4 children)

Yes, Israel has been bad, but even your choice of data shows an issue. You spent 50% of your reply on incidents before 1949, before even Netanyahu was even born. Then another 30% on things that happened after the example of Mark Hamill supporting Israel.

The most recent incident prior to Hamill's declared support that you cited was over 20 years prior to October 7th.

Now the thing is, those incidents aren't the full picture, but even as you try to support awareness, you skipped over the most relevant misbehavior that could drive understanding for how October 7th came to pass. If even someone trying to convince others manages to gloss over 20 years, how in the world can we expect more neutral bystanders to understand that the situation was more complicated in that moment?

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[–] NihilsineNefas@slrpnk.net 0 points 3 months ago (3 children)

Please elaborate on how the situation is "more complicated" to you. As of this past month there only remains about 40% of Gaza that is left unoccupied behind Israel's imposed "yellow line"; the one where if anyone walks past it they're shot. There are cities that have been razed to the ground and you say "Israel has been bad" like a misbehaving child.

Do you think a set of images listing out the multiple occasions where an invading and occupying force has murdered and displaced civillians is an exhaustive one, or the easiest and quickest way of cataloguing a series of warcrimes?

Also the gap is unfortunately my fault, I have double the 24-26 and missing the original for 02-23, you'll have to, and scuse the phrase "do your own research" on those years because I can't be bothered to argue the semantics of the genocide with you when your only argument is 'You didnt say everything that you possibly could have so I can disregard everything you've said as ramblings of an idle mind'

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[–] jj4211@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I said the situation was (past tense) "more complicated" compared to the then commonly held view that Hamas was just being evil and terroristic on October 7th. I was agreeing that the view was oblivious.

I was not saying you were wrong, I was saying that even as you point out everyone in the damn world should know better, you didn't point out the things they would have needed to know. That if it is that difficult for you to highlight the things he should have known, how can we expect him to know about them at a time when people had not been talking about it except for the very recent and very violent October 7th event.

What came before was bad, but nothing like what happened since and nowhere near as popularly known.

My point is simply that folks that showed support for Israel in the popular media in October and November of 2023 can be given a break. They weren't necessarily pro genocide, just oblivious to the nuanced circumstances and focused on the most recent and severe single act, which was committed by Hamas. After the IDF went as far as they did, that obliviousness no longer is understandable.

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[–] NihilsineNefas@slrpnk.net 0 points 3 months ago (1 child)

Why do you insist on using past tense to describe what is ongoing, much the same way that nobody can point to an incident where these millionaires and billionaires that are worshipped for their celebrity status have come out and said "I was wrong, what's going on are daily crimes against humanity the likes of which we have not seen before."

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[–] jj4211@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

Feel like you are trying to misunderstand for the sake of being outraged.

I was implying that the situation was more 'nuanced' and 'complicated' at the time of the October 7th attack, that the attack was horrible but it was a bit more complicated due to enduring misbehavior by Israel in Gaza and the West bank, both sides doing bad things. It has become less complicated because it has become absurdly one-sided atrocities by Israel in the recent years.

Yes, it would be good to see some folks come back and update their perspective given more information, but I'm still not going to advocate for crucifying someone solely for tacking their name on a letter of solidarity with Israel in the immediate wake of the October 7th attack.

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