348
Fully autonomous drones have killed human soldiers for the first time (www.newscientist.com)
submitted 4 months ago by to c/world@lemmy.world
141 comments fedilink hide all child comments
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[+] -20 points 4 months ago (23 children)

No disagreement there, maybe Ukraine should fight their own battles though and not commit horrific war crimes and crimes against humanity to do so? Maybe Ukraine shouldn't introduce autonomous murder drones that are objectively incapable of making the required determinations in the Geneva Convention regarding legitimate military targets? Maybe Ukraine shouldn't give people a reason to hate it when they have such good PR from Russia's illegal invasion?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 23 child comments
    •
  • [–] 17 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    Maybe Russia should get the fuck out of Ukraine.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
    •
  • [+] -19 points 4 months ago (7 children)

    Reread, try again.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
    •
  • [–] 13 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    No, I fully understood what you were trying to say. I am disagreeing and pointing out that everything you said remains irrelevant as it could literally all be stopped if Russia would get the fuck out of Ukraine.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [+] -13 points 4 months ago (4 children)
    [removed by mod]
  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago

    Man, I'm on board with calling Ukraine out for their war crimes, as anyone should be called out, who does so.

    But now you're just making an ass of yourself.
    That's as false an equivalence as it gets. Russia is objectively the aggressor in this conflict, while a Jewish "invasion" into Gemany didn't exist. Not even as an antisemitic fantasy.

    I'm not even opposed to making Nazi comparisons, but they better be at least somewhat valid.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    False equivalence. Jews belonged where they were, and were part of the german population. In addition, no civilians were injured or targeted. Thus there are no war crimes. I'm not saying I am a fan of even the idea of removing people from killing people, but as the laws are currently written, there is no war crime. War crime is a very specific serious, and well defined thing. Calling things we don't like a war crime dilutes and weakens the very term.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago

    In addition, no civilians were injured or targeted. Thus there are no war crimes.

    We literally cannot know that by the way. These things do not have the processing power to tell the difference between a valid combatant, a surrendered combatant, an unarmed medic, or even someone that happens to be just wearing camo to, you know, not be shot during a war.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 7 points 4 months ago (11 children)

    If someone comes into my house and tries to take all my stuff I'm going to kill them.

    And I'm not going to consider whether of not I'm doing it in a nice or polite way.

    If you invade someone's shit and try to steal it, you will deal with the fallout of that action.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 11 child comments
    •
  • [+] -15 points 4 months ago (10 children)

    No. Bad drone. Keep up.

    If a fire fighter breaks into your house to put out a fire and your autonomous ceiling turret shreds them who's at fault?

    Because autonomous drone systems don't care about friend or foe, no AI model is close to good enough for that with all the processing power in the world, much less what can be shoved in any type of airborne drone.

    So this is akin to booby trapping your house, leaving your house, and then assuming anyone killed by your trap was a bad guy.

    Again, because you fucks don't read RUSSIA IS THE BAD GUY, THEY DID AN ILLEGAL INVASION, ALL CURRENT MILITARY MEMBERS AND LEADERS OF RUSSIA SHOULD BE KILLED.

    Now that that's established, deal with the current discussion, not your owner's repeated propaganda tactics.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 10 child comments
    •
  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (9 children)

    Things like "keep up" and " you fuckers can't read" make you sound like a grade A collosal dickhead, by the way if that's any concern to you.

    I read just fine and see everything you said. Doesn't change anything.

    If you invade a country you fuck around and find out what that entails.

    They are using them the same way shit is being used against them.

    Russia hit the first civilian targets after invading them once that happens all bets are off if you come in to my country and ki my people I am going to murder yours too.

    I believe that is the way it has worked for all of history.

    And arguments like this present about bombs and shit too historically.

    This is simply the way war evolves with the technology at hand. Keep up.

    Also firefighter isn't a black masked invader or military group lol your analogy is trash. The "booby trapping" happened after GETTING INVADED. Wasn't there for no reason in the beginning was made as a response TO INVASION. Its simple to understand honestly.

    Maybe they ought to just line up in steaight lines again like how they used to do.

    And honestly what is it with these guns? You can kill someone a mile away with the right one, how inhumane! How horrible! You can't even see the whites of their eyes this way!

    I know man, maybe you can just get them to drop the weapons all together and have a dialogue instead that has always worked I can't think of a single time in history talking it out and not responding to violence with more violence hasn't worked out.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
    •
  • [–] -3 points 4 months ago (8 children)

    They are using them the same way shit is being used against them.

    Incorrect, hence the smug title.

    If you invade a country you fuck around and find out what that entails.

    Cool so the next time France invades Libya, we should round up all of France's citizens and send them all to death camps. Fuck around and find out right?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
    •
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (7 children)

    Never said they should round up the citizens and put in death camps or suggested it quit being so obtuse.

    However, for the sake of understanding I am talking about any citizen from another country that is invading that country then yes they should die that's what happens when you invade shit.

    Also yes, I think the French soldiers that are in places like French Polynesia and shit should be expelled one way or another. Violence or voting because in that scenario they would leave if they voted for independence I think they've said this before.

    And if France bombs Libya or whatever then abso-fucking-lutely that country should be able to bomb their ass back. Citizens do die during this and its incredible because the way to avoid it is by not bombing other countries

    If you invade somewhere no one should have sympathy for you stay in your shit and there's no problems. This goes for French, USAians, Russian, Germans, Chinese, humanity in general.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
    •
  • [–] -3 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    So civilians are legitimate military targets now, Herr DanceMomsSavedMe?

    And we shouldn't worry about war crimes ever I guess? As long as 'oh there's no other way to save our regime' it's completely fine to gas a civilian populace that might house invading military members?

    I knew you guys didn't die out in the 40s but christ you people have gotten so incredibly bold lately.

    6 years ago it would have been unthinkable to publicly state you want civilian deaths because the oppressive regime over them invaded somewhere.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (5 children)

    Lol insinuating I'm a Nazi because I say that if you bomb another countries civillians they should be allowed to bomb yours back?

    That's called collateral damage.

    Also calling anyone you disagree with a Nazi doesn't make you look wise it makes you look stupid. I hate Nazis. And I also hate invaders. Which the Nazis were.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
    •
  • [–] -3 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    ...Yes. Blaming a country's citizens, when you allege they are under an oppressive regime and do not have a voice, makes you at best a monster.

    That is the justification used by the nazis. That is the justification used by all monsters. Grouping an entire country together for the actions of an oppressive regime is quite literally victim blaming. It's like when the US openly bombed Baghdad and killed over 10k civilians. Everyone recognized that was a bad thing. Everyone recognizes Agent Orange was a bad thing. Everyone recognizes South Korea's use of chemical weapons to wipe out NK civilians was a bad thing.

    If you believe the people have no choice, then bombing them is the same as killing the hostages to save them.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

    Yeah so when a country bombs your apartment buildings and community centers then you do that back.

    Hospitals and schools is obviously a line that shouldn't be crossed whether the other side does it or not. (In this scenario the Russians have, by the way)

    But apartment buildings and shit? When they hit yours first? Fair game dude. That's how war works.

    Obviously fucking using chemical wrapons and torture against them is not ok and also, isnt what I said in this entire thread.

    Also you seem to think I like this or get off on this. No. Its just quite simply the way wars fucking work. That's why I think you shouldn't start wars. But if someone starts one with you destroy them or keep fighting back until they leave, that's literally how war is.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    But apartment buildings and shit? When they hit yours first? Fair game dude. That’s how war works.

    No, it's explicitly not. I know you're American and thus skipped the entire part of History class based on American war crimes and the 200 countries that signed agreements to not do war crimes, but you are describing war crimes. Explicitly.

    But if someone starts one with you destroy them, that’s literally how war is.

    No, that is how you create a state of permanent war. The civilians that hated their government? They now exclusively hate you. They will spend the next 500 years attacking you asymmetrically doing 'terrorism.' And you will have EARNED that terrorism.

    The US was rightfully attacked on 9/11. Because they were doing this. Because they always do this. When you kill civilians you create future terrorists that will dedicate their death to you.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago* (1 child)

    The line being used from Russia when they did this to Ukraine first is that they had military targets.

    So if that's true and Ukraine says the same thing where is the war crime?

    Also if the citizens hate you because you defended yourself from being invaded then fuck them. That's not your problem as long as you can defend yourself from them invading you again.

    You shouldn't be hated for defending yourself.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago

    The line being used from Russia when they did this to Ukraine first is that they had military targets.

    When your enemy is making a mistake, copy them. - Son Fu, Fart of Warts.

    That’s not your problem as long as you can defend yourself from them invading you again.

    You won't be able to. Especially with as porous a border as Ukraine has. It takes one person going from Russia to Romania and then crossing that unfenced border to pose a threat to a Ukrainian school in ten years. It takes one person deciding they've had enough for the Evil Ukrainians that killed their wife to drive from Hungary into Ukraine and suicide bomb a government office or a bank.

    You shouldn’t be hated for defending yourself.

    You won't be, you will be hated and forever targeted for killing civilians. Because they don't care about your shitty little regime, they don't care about your shitty little war, they don't care about anything but surviving their own regime. And all you do by killing civilians is strengthen the enemy regime.

    People that would have protested internally in Russia will fully support the Russian invasion, because the evil Ukrainians killed their parents.

    People that would have never picked up a gun will do everything in the power to kill Ukrainians, even after the war is over, because the Evil Ukrainians killed their family.

    People that actively worked against Russian imperialism internally will now decide that the Evil Ukrainians are worse than the Russians, because the Evil Ukrainians killed their kids.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, would be nice, but they are fighting for their survival and russia should have never put them in this position to require this. I can't imagine a situation where Ukraine would have come up with these if not out of necessity.

    Same reason I can't fault iran for lashing out at non-military targets because the US is illegally attacking them.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago

    Iran is targeting the exact same targets the US is. That's the parity, that's the expectation, that's what every country has to follow if they want to not be seen as an evil regime and be invaded by more countries... except white ones. White ones get to introduce world-ending immoral technology that is only capable of committing war crimes.

    I wouldn't send nazis to extermination camps. I wouldn't set nazis on fire. I wouldn't use chemical warfare against nazis, because those things are infinitely worse than losing a war. Losing your humanity leaves you nothing left even if you win.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent