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EU age verification app announced to protect children online (www.dw.com)
submitted 4 months ago by to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[+] -18 points 4 months ago (9 children)

I see how this would be considered a problem in the US.

In Europe we see these things differently. I have a number of apps already, that knows my government id. Honestly I don't know how many, I haven't needed to keep track.

All sorts of apps from drivers license to a social networking app, which all needs to know my exact id to work. Even my kids has their government id on their phones. This includes an app which only purpose is to prove the users identity.

Having one more appwith your id is not a problem. Specially when its purpos is to NOT show your id.

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  • [–] 18 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Why does any of your apps need to involve a government ID? Why do kids need ID on their phone?

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  • [+] -7 points 4 months ago

    First, government id has a very different ring here, than in the us. It's not that different from a name or a face. It's not s big deal. Almost anytime there's any need to be recognized formally, the government id is an easy way to do it.

    We don't really use "all names and addresses you've had the past 5 years" and all that.

    So think about any app, where you need to id yourself better than just an email adress or phone number. It will be all of those.

    I have an app to access my medical record. Nobody accesses my medical record without identifying themselves, in a trustworthy way.

    My bank app, with access to all my financials, including pension funds - same deal.

    There's a payment app that is very popular here, the kids uses it too. It requires id. That id solves some issues that could have been solved in other ways, but since id is no big deal here, that's the easiest solution by far.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Exactly. We're not afraid of government overreach, but corporate overreach. In the US it's the opposite (if you include regulatory capture as government overreach). Both regions are underestimating risks in one of these areas. Dictatorship and oligarchy can happen and we should be careful

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)

    I'm an European (specifically from an EU country). I was born still in a Dictatorship, before the Revolution which brought Democracy, and I grew up hearing the stories of Censorship and the Political Police arresting people for criticizing the local Dictator.

    I don't know who your "we" is, but it sure as hell ain't me or most of my countrymen.

    A mandatory Government app on your phone is the kind of thing that rings alarm bells in people's minds around here because it stinks of Dictatorship and is a wet dream come true for a Political Police.

    I lived elsewhere in Europe, so I can understand that people in countries which have long been stable and Democratic (say, The Netherlands and all of Scandinavia), have no memory of Authoritarianism and think that the Authorities only ever act for the greater good (which is why, for example, Swedes have zero concerns about every single payment they do ending up in a database), but pretty much everbody from Southern and Eastern Europe have either direct memories or heard the stories of just how bad the Authorities can be and just how bad it is to let them know what you're doing.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

    Clearly, if you're really from Europe (and not just a paid propagandist or troll), you're not from one of those countries which freed themselves from some dictatorship or other recently enough for most people in that country having themselves or their parents been alive during the dictatorship days.

    One thing is some kind of passive ID, be it in a card or in digital format, another very different thing is software running on your devices which is capable of automatically reporting to the authorities everything you do.

    As the US is showing right now, it doesn't take much to go from absolutelly legit activity - say having an abortion - and innocent apps with some kind of "phone home" ability - say something to help women track their periods - doing no harm to anybody, to extreme prison sentences (for murder, even) and said apps being used to catch and prosecute women for it.

    Anybody who has even just heard the stories from their parents and grandparents about whatever the version of the Stasi in their country used to do in the Dictatorship days would be profoundly against any "report to the authorities" software even if it's sold by politicians as "think of the children".

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    you're not from one of those countries which freed themselves from some dictatorship or other recently

    This is true.

    software running on your devices which is capable of automatically reporting to the authorities everything you do.

    This would be my only government app that is NOT capable of doing that, because it's open source. If they start doing that, it will be all over the media.

    I already have at least 7 apps where that could do that and get away with it. That should be the concern, not this new app.

    As the US is showing right now, it doesn't take much to go from absolutelly legit activity

    If our government was like yours (even the way it was before Teump), I would be as concerned as you are. But it's not.

    I'm making the bet that if the government changes, I will have time to adapt. (Yes, I could be wrong.)

    profoundly against any "report to the authorities"

    Yeah, but that's not what's happening here, so I don't feel like discussing that here.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

    I’m making the bet that if the government changes, I will have time to adapt. (Yes, I could be wrong.)

    The thing with data is that once it's out, it's out.

    If tomorrow whatever you do today starts getting deemed a perversion or even a crime, the data related to you doing sent out today will at the very least put you at the front of the list of people to be investigated for it.

    Best to have as little as possible about me and my activities (no matter how innocent) out there in an easy to access form, IMHO. If I have to trade a bit of convenience for it, so be it.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago*

    I'm a European, and yet I wrote this; but I would agree many people (regardless of whether or not European) have progressively been accustomed, to having their personal identify tied to their devices (often for the sake of convenience, or out of necessity: the uncalled-for Two Factor Authentication (2FA) applications, for accessing government or work-related services, being an example), and I've not been an exception to that rule.

    For me these were limited to applications, typically where a higher degree of security is expected: banking applications, the before mentioned 2FA applications, government mailbox applications, etc. But I've also once sent, a nearly fully redacted copy of my driver's license to YouTube, in order to listen to music with naughty artwork (which I already believed to be ridiculous at the time, but gave into nevertheless).

    Currently I would never let such applications near devices for general use, and it wouldn't even cross my mind, to ever send any signal that signifies I'm not, in fact, a child, and shouldn't be treated as such; ultimately so abusive services are green-lit to surveil me as an adult, instead of having to be more conservative (as data collection on children is typically more strict: for whatever reason... instead of people, regardless of age, being treated with dignity).

    So no, not everybody has applications on their device, which link to, or directly store one's personal identity. I rarely have to interact with financial or government services, and have zero interest, in being required to do so in order to access "age-restricted" content online. I like my pseudo-anonymity, and do not at all, trust a government application, which links this pseudo-anonymous activity to my personal identity.

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