cross-posted from : https://lemmy.zip/post/62209262

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[–] 29 points 4 months ago (3 children)

The "they catch fire" argument is fucking bonkers anyway.

If there's one thing petrol cars are famous for, it's being filled with flammable liquids that can and do leak everywhere and combust upon collision.

You can ignore them. Same with all the disingenuous cunts who complain about wind turbines "spoiling the view" who ignore the coal and gas power stations that have littered the skyline for over a century.

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    So does an airplane crash would be more horrifying than a car crash, but that doesn't change the fact that airplanes are safer.

    Even so, any improvement is still good though

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  • [+] -6 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Ah, Lemmy. You never disappoint with sharing hilariously inaccurate information in comments!

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  • [–] 11 points 4 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    Uhm, the statistics are flawed. Not the fire itself is the problem, but how many people are killed by it. If an ICE vehicle burns, you usually have enough time to get out. If an EV burns, good luck.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    I thought I was careful not to claim any stats. The only thing we know is that EV fires are less frequent but more intense.

    Probably not much data out there because it's so infrequent. You are much more likely to die from collisions I imagine.

    I think Teslas cast a dark halo in this area as well. Newer vehicles, but it wouldn't surprise me of their drivers carelessness mirrored their largest shareholder.

    Its worth knowing and researching to reduce fire incidence, but combustion engines have bigger problems.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child)

    Cool source. Ok, I'll bite. The number of fire deaths in Teslas alone drawfs the number of fatalities in the infamous Pinto. The number is being tracked by volunteers because there's no data from the NFPA or others that segments by EV vs ICE, but the number of highway vehicle fire deaths has been trending sharply upwards since 2016.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    Tesla has sold nearly 8 million cars in total, with 3.5 million cars in 2023-2024 alone. There were 3.1 million Pintos ever produced in its 10 year run.

    There are 27 fatalities linked to Pinto related fires and 83 related to Tesla fires according to your volunteer run source. The Pinto had a fatality for every 1 in 116,000 vehicles while Tesla, according to your source, has 1 in every 96,000. So the number of Tesla fire related fatalities does not "dwarf" the number of Pinto related fatalities. On top of that, a key difference is most of the Pinto fatalities were due to rear end collisions with no fault of the driver while Tesla's are much higher performance vehicles getting involved in high energy collisions due to driver (autonomous and human) errors.

    Here is a list giving a different view of fatal accidents by car model. To quote the article:

    “Most of these vehicles received excellent safety ratings, performing well in crash tests at the IIHS and NHTSA, so it’s not a vehicle design issue,” said Brauer. “The models on this list likely reflect a combination of driver behavior and driving conditions, leading to increased crashes and fatalities.”

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Narrowing down the relevant information from your otherwise interesting comment, we can conclude that, if the sources are accurate, Teslas on average are more unsafe in terms of fire safety than the most unsafe internal combustion engine vehicle ever manufactured.

    I think it's ludicrous to dismiss those concerns as "fucking bonkers" and that we "can ignore them." New addition to this list is that we can evidently also generalize all those EVs deaths as being "due to driver error," so I suppose good riddance? Not really sure what to make of that, but boy do these threads sure show the best of humanity.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    I think Teslas shouldn't speak for all EVs.

    the company has demonstrated a very high tolerance for risk. In execution, but also they don't seem to care about reputational risk. Other manufacturers with a larger business at stake, I would expect to handle recalls, safety in a different manner (one of the reasons they are lagging in the EV space)

    So.. EVs have significantly less fires than combustion engines

    But EVs fires are more severe

    Tesla is a mess.

    EV chemistry is getting better and safer over time.

    Combustion engines are largely at their limit.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    You have clearly made up a narrative you want to hear, that doesn't change the statistics that clearly shows EVs are significantly less prone (~20x) to catching fire compared to internal combustion vehicles.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    How have I made up a narrative? My premise from the start was the absurdity of dismissing the dangers of vehicle fires, and there's data showing that a significant number of people die in EV fires. You've decided to argue that the deaths somehow matter less—that's making up a narrative to justify your, frankly, ludicrous position.

    I'm sure that if somebody you loved died in such an event and somebody came along telling you that you're "an idiot" for having legitimate concerns, should be ignored and lumps you into a group of "disingenuous cunts," you'd have a different perspective.

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