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BIG (like Americans) IF TRUE (thelemmy.club)
submitted 6 months ago by to c/2northamerican4you@sh.itjust.works
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[–] 57 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (7 children)

Dutch guy here. That's not cheese. Don't you dare place that junk in the same category as our holy (pun intended) gold.

I'm sure France, Switzerland and Italy agree with me.

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  • [–] 30 points 6 months ago* (3 children)

    Look, nobody is eating cubes of American cheese and pretending it's gouda. It's for cheeseburgers and grilled cheese sandwiches. It's uniquely suited for it. It melts better. The flavor is strong and unsubtle, which matches well with a well-seasoned burger or stands on its own in a grilled cheese.

    Just because you don't understand a food doesn't mean it's bad.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Make a cheese burger or grilled cheese sandwich with American plastic and one with proper Dutch cheese and compare. No way in hell the American cheese (like in the picture) wins.

    Just because you don't understand a food doesn't mean it's bad.

    Just because you never had proper cheese means you don't know what you're talking about.

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  • [–] 19 points 6 months ago

    just because you've never had proper cheese

    Do you seriously think the only cheese that exists in the entirety of the US is kraft singles?

    I'm sure your cheese is delicious but I'm also positive I've had some cheese that's much better, and I got it in America. It's a big country.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I've had many different cheeses on my burgers. I'm sure I've even had a gouda burger. They can be fine if you're going for like a specialty burger with other non-standard toppings, but a straight-up cheeseburger? That's not what proper Dutch cheese is made for, so why would you use it like that?

    Different ingredients are better in different contexts.

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  • [–] -2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Gouda in the Netherlands is not the same as gouda from anywhere else

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I don't get the downvotes. I've been to Netherlands and it's true.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago

    Yeah it's not an opinion it's a fact. It's with a lot of food, that it's best in a certain country because of the climate. I've been all over the world and tasted a lot of Dutch cheeses produced overseas but they all taste different.

    Same with Heineken, in the Netherlands it tastes like piss but Heineken procured in other countries tastes like piss with plastic somehow. And it changes with every factory. Guinness also tastes best in Ireland. Red wines in the Netherlands taste worse than in France etc because of the climate. Best drink white when you're here.

    Next to that the production process isn't the same everywhere due to regulations which also has an effect on the taste of Gouda cheese. And cheese is made with mold which is very sensitive to climate. Different cows mean different milk taste. You can clone the strain and process but it's never the same.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    As much as I appreciate good cheeses, American Singles are suitable for cheeseburger and grilled cheese-applications on account of them containing sodium citrate, which gives them good melting properties.

    Well-tasting cheeses without sodium citrate tend to break when melted, which is not particularly desirable.

    You could of course make your own melt-appropriate cheese by mixing in sodium citrate with a shredded well-tasting cheese and melting the mixture.

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  • [+] -8 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    All the young Dutch cheeses, as well as white French cheeses (or from other EU countries) melt extremily well. Just the heavily riped yellow cheeses melt less well. If it's young and doesn't melt, it's probably not real cheese.

    Well-tasting cheeses without sodium citrate tend to break when melted

    I've never seen melted cheese break. How does that even work, it's melted so in a liquid form. Even when cooled down it should be flexible and stretchy. Even when it's overly riped cheese which eventually melted (which it should, with a lot of patience) and cooled down should be more rubber-like than break.

    When you think those American cheeses are perfect for their melting properties, you clearly dont have proper cheese alternatives as all young cheeses should melt flawlessly.

    But the chance you don't have good alternatives is highly likely. I've traveled the world a lot and most Dutch cheeses I ate abroad were terrible. Even the craft cheeses were much worse than the plain mediocre quality supermarket factory cheeses here in NL. Even when I went to the UK, while the British themselves can make some very nice cheeses. But the Dutch cheeses they had were basically plastic, and indeed with barely any melting properties.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    are we still talking about Kraft Singles, here? because those have zero flavour

    maybe I need to get a refresher on the differences between american cheese in Canada and in the US

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  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago

    If you think Kraft Singles have no flavor, then we must not be talking about the same thing. There's much better American cheese than Kraft Singles, but I can't imagine describing them as bland.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago

    There is zero issue with making a grilled cheese with something like cheddar or even mozarella. The melting thing is in small part people cooking too hot, but mostly it is pure marketing hype - american cheese only makes sauces easier.

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  • [–] 19 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Dutch girl here. There is absolutely good American cheese. It's a huge place and they have a lot of great cheese makers, just like how europe has some absolute crap. Go to the Jumbo and pick up some "White salad cubes" and tell me they're better than this.

    That said, none of this cheese pictured is good, or even mediocre.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

    True, there really are a lot of people making proper cheese in the US. Wisconsin has a large amount of Dutch-style cheese production (stemming from Dutch immigrants). There's plenty of French ("mold cheese" like camemberts) and Italian style fresh (ricotta, mozzarella) cheese producers. Probably proper British cheddar producers as well.

    So yes. Tons of proper cheese being made in the US, all [insert country]-style cheeses though.

    But what exactly is "American cheese" then? I'd say this can only refer to this plastic crap. The US exported this yellow dyed cheap plastic curdled milk through McDonald's, then the rest of the world started making "American style cheese" because it is cheap to produce and has a long shelf life.

    I would genuinely be interested to hear if there's any exceptions? Are there any actual cheese making processes that were invented in the US that are not a derivative of immigrant cheese-making?

    Any Native American (buffalo?) cheeses maybe?

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    American Cheese is made with Sodium Citrate which is totally fine to eat. It's an emulsifying salt commonly used in molecular gastronomy... It's not plastic. American cheese has its uses like someone else said. It's literally just other cheeses like cheddar or Colby, melted in milk and emulsified with the sodium citrate. What is so bad about cheap cheese that has a long shelf life? Not everyone can afford to eat the fancy mountain-cave aged Swiss alp cheese.

    Besides... People have been making cheeses for thousands of years, like how many more different ways to make it can we come up with? It's all the same basic ingredients at the end of the day. There are only so many permutations someone can come up with. The rest of the world kinda had a head start.

    Also I just thought of another American cheese invention. How about cream cheese? Do you hate that too?

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

    "It's literally just other cheeses molten in milk and emulsified." That's solidified cheese sauce and still made from [insert country]-style cheeses. The "making cheese of milk", the proces that produces actual cheese and flavour, already happened.

    I don't even hate it, I like it on a burger or in Mac and cheese. It's just not really cheese, and not really American. My question was, is there an actual American cheese?

    The cream cheese is a nice one! I'm genuinely into cheeses and wondering what type of actual American cheeses there are.

    Also, I find this a really funny analogy for USA culture in general.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    But what exactly is “American cheese” then? I’d say this can only refer to this plastic crap. The US exported this yellow dyed cheap plastic curdled milk through McDonald’s

    Pretty sure it got popularized by being distributed to the troops in WWI (and then even more in WWII), not with McDonald's.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    France agrees with you but also looks down on your cheeses and calls all of them "Gouda" even if not from Gouda haha

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Ah I don't mind. It's France, they only have Nice people in one city so I get it. And honestly, Dutch cheese is nice on bread but French cheese is a delicacy. Same with the bread. And I don't know if you ever had Dutch wine, but I'm deeply ashamed we even dared to name it wine.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Nice pun.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Thanks I worked hard on it.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I've had some once at a restaurant in Amsterdam that was grown in Brabant, the sommelier said with climate change it was similar conditions to Burgundy in the 70s, but I certainly couldn't taste that hahaha.

    Cheese wise, I like them a lot but indeed they feel maybe a bit more utilitarian than a delicacy (like a lot of Dutch food actually), I would say that some of the ones with more age are tough.

    I like to say, the Dutch eat to live, the French live to eat ;)

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    I like to say, the Dutch eat to live, the French live to eat ;)

    It even goes as far as that we export the highest quality products and keep the shit ones for ourselves because we're too cheap. Export high quality vegitables to France and import mediocre quality from Egypt for example.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    Which vegetable would be better from Dutch greenhouses than from Egyptian fields?

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago*

    Basically all. The Dutch regulations are the most strict in the world while the technology is super advanced. So it's produced with the least amount of water, least amount of pesticides as the strains are modified to be resistant by themselves against pests, fungi etc and with high quality fertilizer. We're a tiny country but one of the largest food exporters of the world (source) with the highest quality. Here's an article on why we're so good at it. Yet we export most of it as the high quality profits the most while we're cheap and don't care about quality. It's so weird.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    other dutch guy here, france makes moldcheese 🤮 and america makes plastic cheese, we are the only country that knows how cheese is supposed to taste

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    It's a matter of taste. I love French mold cheese. But also the French, Spanish, Portugese, Swiss and Italians can make really nice yellow cheese. Better tasting than the average Dutch cheese if you ask me, although the Dutch cheese I buy on the market is really good and much better (and cheaper) than supermarket cheeses.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

    I am summoning the french of jlailu! We can't let that thinking expand. Non non, révolution !

    (btw, as true cheese nerds, we like all the cheese wherever they are from. Cheese is love)

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