▲ 471 ▼ US warns they will send fighter jets into Canadian airspace if F-35 deal doesn’t go through | The Independent (www.independent.co.uk) submitted 6 months ago by slothrop@lemmy.ca to c/news@lemmy.world 138 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] MadMadBunny@lemmy.ca 62 points 6 months ago (2 children) That’s technically a declaration of war, right? permalink fedilink source hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] sik0fewl@piefed.ca 21 points 6 months ago (1 child) Not even close. They’re suggesting that Canada won’t be able to defend its own airspace so US will have to be able to operate more freely in Canadian than they already do. They are saying that the NORAD agreement would need to be updated to accommodate this. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 54 points 6 months ago (1 child) Pretty sure that is the exact explanation that Russia uses when it violates Finnish and Swedish airspace. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 11 points 6 months ago* (2 children) And neither Finland nor Sweden are at war with Russia. Bullshit scare tactic used by fucking putin yes, but it's not itself an act of war. At least, it isn't generally treated as such. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 9 points 6 months ago (1 child) You seem to be applying a pretty strict definition to what is actually an arbitrary term. An act of war can be anything that any nation wants to call an act of war. So I guess we should probably just use some of the countries involved in the real life case we are talking about. Does anyone consider violation of airspace by a nations warplanes to be in-and-of-itself an act of war or at least a proactive action worthy of escalation and retaliation? Oh yeah, the United States does. And so does Russia. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago* (1 child) I'm not applying a strict standard, I'm using the two examples you gave to illustrate my point that it's much more complex than they thought. Finland and Sweden aren't at war so no, at least in those two cases its not a declaration of war. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 1 point 6 months ago* (1 child) Just kinda decided to pretend we were talking about "declarations of war" now? I can see you are either not interested in having a grown up discussion or you're genuinely unable to have one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago* That's the whole subject being discussed. Here's the OP comment we're all replying to: Where they ask if this is a declaration of war. Not sure how that's pretending anything. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Greddan@feddit.org 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago (1 child) For most countries in NATO the last time was WWII, fwiw. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 1 point 6 months ago That would be correct for the two countries at present. For the U.S., it's 1942. For Canada, it's 1941. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 15 points 6 months ago NORAD already has shared skies provisions. US jets can fly into our airspace as needed to intercept foreign attackers. We can do the same with them. None of this constitutes a threat, despite Hoekstra's weird, fumbling attempt to deliver it like one. He basically said "If you don't give us your business, we'll have no choice but to protect your airspace even harder!" Oh, wow, scary. No, please, don't do that. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] sik0fewl@piefed.ca 21 points 6 months ago (1 child) Not even close. They’re suggesting that Canada won’t be able to defend its own airspace so US will have to be able to operate more freely in Canadian than they already do. They are saying that the NORAD agreement would need to be updated to accommodate this. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 54 points 6 months ago (1 child) Pretty sure that is the exact explanation that Russia uses when it violates Finnish and Swedish airspace. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 11 points 6 months ago* (2 children) And neither Finland nor Sweden are at war with Russia. Bullshit scare tactic used by fucking putin yes, but it's not itself an act of war. At least, it isn't generally treated as such. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 9 points 6 months ago (1 child) You seem to be applying a pretty strict definition to what is actually an arbitrary term. An act of war can be anything that any nation wants to call an act of war. So I guess we should probably just use some of the countries involved in the real life case we are talking about. Does anyone consider violation of airspace by a nations warplanes to be in-and-of-itself an act of war or at least a proactive action worthy of escalation and retaliation? Oh yeah, the United States does. And so does Russia. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago* (1 child) I'm not applying a strict standard, I'm using the two examples you gave to illustrate my point that it's much more complex than they thought. Finland and Sweden aren't at war so no, at least in those two cases its not a declaration of war. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 1 point 6 months ago* (1 child) Just kinda decided to pretend we were talking about "declarations of war" now? I can see you are either not interested in having a grown up discussion or you're genuinely unable to have one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago* That's the whole subject being discussed. Here's the OP comment we're all replying to: Where they ask if this is a declaration of war. Not sure how that's pretending anything. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Greddan@feddit.org 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago (1 child) For most countries in NATO the last time was WWII, fwiw. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 1 point 6 months ago That would be correct for the two countries at present. For the U.S., it's 1942. For Canada, it's 1941. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 54 points 6 months ago (1 child) Pretty sure that is the exact explanation that Russia uses when it violates Finnish and Swedish airspace. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 11 points 6 months ago* (2 children) And neither Finland nor Sweden are at war with Russia. Bullshit scare tactic used by fucking putin yes, but it's not itself an act of war. At least, it isn't generally treated as such. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 9 points 6 months ago (1 child) You seem to be applying a pretty strict definition to what is actually an arbitrary term. An act of war can be anything that any nation wants to call an act of war. So I guess we should probably just use some of the countries involved in the real life case we are talking about. Does anyone consider violation of airspace by a nations warplanes to be in-and-of-itself an act of war or at least a proactive action worthy of escalation and retaliation? Oh yeah, the United States does. And so does Russia. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago* (1 child) I'm not applying a strict standard, I'm using the two examples you gave to illustrate my point that it's much more complex than they thought. Finland and Sweden aren't at war so no, at least in those two cases its not a declaration of war. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 1 point 6 months ago* (1 child) Just kinda decided to pretend we were talking about "declarations of war" now? I can see you are either not interested in having a grown up discussion or you're genuinely unable to have one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago* That's the whole subject being discussed. Here's the OP comment we're all replying to: Where they ask if this is a declaration of war. Not sure how that's pretending anything. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Greddan@feddit.org 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago (1 child) For most countries in NATO the last time was WWII, fwiw. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 1 point 6 months ago That would be correct for the two countries at present. For the U.S., it's 1942. For Canada, it's 1941. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 11 points 6 months ago* (2 children) And neither Finland nor Sweden are at war with Russia. Bullshit scare tactic used by fucking putin yes, but it's not itself an act of war. At least, it isn't generally treated as such. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 9 points 6 months ago (1 child) You seem to be applying a pretty strict definition to what is actually an arbitrary term. An act of war can be anything that any nation wants to call an act of war. So I guess we should probably just use some of the countries involved in the real life case we are talking about. Does anyone consider violation of airspace by a nations warplanes to be in-and-of-itself an act of war or at least a proactive action worthy of escalation and retaliation? Oh yeah, the United States does. And so does Russia. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago* (1 child) I'm not applying a strict standard, I'm using the two examples you gave to illustrate my point that it's much more complex than they thought. Finland and Sweden aren't at war so no, at least in those two cases its not a declaration of war. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 1 point 6 months ago* (1 child) Just kinda decided to pretend we were talking about "declarations of war" now? I can see you are either not interested in having a grown up discussion or you're genuinely unable to have one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago* That's the whole subject being discussed. Here's the OP comment we're all replying to: Where they ask if this is a declaration of war. Not sure how that's pretending anything. permalink fedilink source parent [+] Greddan@feddit.org 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago (1 child) For most countries in NATO the last time was WWII, fwiw. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 1 point 6 months ago That would be correct for the two countries at present. For the U.S., it's 1942. For Canada, it's 1941. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 9 points 6 months ago (1 child) You seem to be applying a pretty strict definition to what is actually an arbitrary term. An act of war can be anything that any nation wants to call an act of war. So I guess we should probably just use some of the countries involved in the real life case we are talking about. Does anyone consider violation of airspace by a nations warplanes to be in-and-of-itself an act of war or at least a proactive action worthy of escalation and retaliation? Oh yeah, the United States does. And so does Russia. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago* (1 child) I'm not applying a strict standard, I'm using the two examples you gave to illustrate my point that it's much more complex than they thought. Finland and Sweden aren't at war so no, at least in those two cases its not a declaration of war. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 1 point 6 months ago* (1 child) Just kinda decided to pretend we were talking about "declarations of war" now? I can see you are either not interested in having a grown up discussion or you're genuinely unable to have one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago* That's the whole subject being discussed. Here's the OP comment we're all replying to: Where they ask if this is a declaration of war. Not sure how that's pretending anything. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago* (1 child) I'm not applying a strict standard, I'm using the two examples you gave to illustrate my point that it's much more complex than they thought. Finland and Sweden aren't at war so no, at least in those two cases its not a declaration of war. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 1 point 6 months ago* (1 child) Just kinda decided to pretend we were talking about "declarations of war" now? I can see you are either not interested in having a grown up discussion or you're genuinely unable to have one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago* That's the whole subject being discussed. Here's the OP comment we're all replying to: Where they ask if this is a declaration of war. Not sure how that's pretending anything. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 1 point 6 months ago* (1 child) Just kinda decided to pretend we were talking about "declarations of war" now? I can see you are either not interested in having a grown up discussion or you're genuinely unable to have one. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago* That's the whole subject being discussed. Here's the OP comment we're all replying to: Where they ask if this is a declaration of war. Not sure how that's pretending anything. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago* That's the whole subject being discussed. Here's the OP comment we're all replying to: Where they ask if this is a declaration of war. Not sure how that's pretending anything. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Greddan@feddit.org 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 child) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago (1 child) For most countries in NATO the last time was WWII, fwiw. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 1 point 6 months ago That would be correct for the two countries at present. For the U.S., it's 1942. For Canada, it's 1941. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago (1 child) For most countries in NATO the last time was WWII, fwiw. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 1 point 6 months ago That would be correct for the two countries at present. For the U.S., it's 1942. For Canada, it's 1941. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 1 point 6 months ago That would be correct for the two countries at present. For the U.S., it's 1942. For Canada, it's 1941. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 15 points 6 months ago NORAD already has shared skies provisions. US jets can fly into our airspace as needed to intercept foreign attackers. We can do the same with them. None of this constitutes a threat, despite Hoekstra's weird, fumbling attempt to deliver it like one. He basically said "If you don't give us your business, we'll have no choice but to protect your airspace even harder!" Oh, wow, scary. No, please, don't do that. permalink fedilink source parent