this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2023
773 points (99.5% liked)
Meta (lemm.ee)
3579 readers
6 users here now
lemm.ee Meta
This is a community for discussion about this particular Lemmy instance.
News and updates about lemm.ee will be posted here, so if that's something that interests you, make sure to subscribe!
Rules:
- Support requests belong in !support
- Only posts about topics directly related to lemm.ee are allowed
- If you don't have anything constructive to add, then do not post/comment here. Low effort memes, trolling, etc is not allowed.
- If you are from another instance, you may participate in discussions, but remain respectful. Realize that your comments will inevitably be associated with your instance by many lemm.ee users.
If you're a Discord user, you can also join our Discord server: https://discord.gg/XM9nZwUn9K
Discord is only a back-up channel, [email protected] will always be the main place for lemm.ee communications.
If you need help with anything, please post in !support instead.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
As I said, the question is welcome no matter how tedious I might personally find it, just like any question asked in good faith.
Complete aside: polcomp is a bad way of attempting to understand politics. It has no way of understanding Marxism.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=9nPVkpWMH9k
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
This is a cool bot!
That video could have easily been 5 minutes. Phweew.
Say something bad about communism.
off-topic
About "communism" itself? What is the scope here? Token criticism is meaningless but I will humor you: I dislike the Khmer Rouge.I don't care to hear you say something bad about neoliberalism because it's the most prized action by anarcho-bidenists to say "NATO bad" and then agree with NATO about most of its enemies.
Everyone should be able to point out flaws in a system, as no system is perfect. Not even communism. So, point out the flaws in communism, in plain English.
Sure, heres some intro-level crit.
Marx was completely off base with his prediction revolution would arise from urban proleitaritized factory workers and intelligentsia in "developed" nations.
Historically, the majority of revolutions have come from rural agricultural workers in the most exploited colonial holdings.
Luckily, communist political theory didn't end with Marx.
What country has been a good example of communism working?
Edit: TLDR; China, Cuba, Vietnam. None of which I’d consider great places to live, or particularly in line with Socialism.
What I did learn is, hexbears like to team up for the kill, but trip all over themselves and land on their own… claws? Hilarity.
For the record, I’m a socialist, just not a troll.
In almost every single country it has been deployed in socialism provides a better physical quality of life when compared with capitalism at the same level of development.
And the names are? List form is preferred if you don’t mind.
List within the study and the classifications:
If this image doesn't display for you(because of the attacks) let me know and I'll find some other way to share it.
Here's an image of how the comparison shakes up:
Well, your article was from 1986, and this image lists the USSR… please, 2023 successful communist countries. List, text.
I am 100% certain that if you compared socialist countries today you would get the same result.
This is extremely obvious when you consider that despite obviously lower levels of development in countries like China, Cuba and Vietnam have higher life expectancy than America.
Not to mention that 21% of america is illiterate whereas literacy in socialist countries is consistently the highest in the world.
Any person doing even the most limited of critical thought about healthcare access, education and life expectancy can understand that socialist countries today would come out on top when compared to their capitalist counterparts that sit at the same level of development.
The fact that you just dismiss it with the USSR present in the data is odd. You are aware that rent in the USSR was 5% of your total income correct? I think your perspective and understanding of how people lived is not in line with reality, your confusion about this data is because you have fully bought into propaganda instead of getting a proper and measured idea about things. You are not immune to propaganda.
Life expectancy is your way to determine successful?
I’m not sure i’d really consider any of those places a good place to live. China is pretty crazy and jails people for talking about Winnie the Pooh. Is that your idea of government?
Cuba and Vietnam also have lower life expectancy than the US.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
Look at Hong Kong kicking ass at #1 though. (Not exactly communist with all that love for the free market)
I think your info might be a bit out of date at this point.
But thanks for the chat.
Using wikipedia is dogshit, stop using it.
The World Bank data is here, which is the same data used in the study: https://datatopics.worldbank.org
The actual current data is:
USA: 77.28
Cuba: 77.57
Vietnam: 75.38
China: 78.08
Hong Kong is not a country, it is a city in China. Individual cities are not good examples of life expectancy when life expectancy of cities typically outperforms life expectancy of rural regions due to quicker access to life-saving medical facilities afforded by density. This is why you really shouldn't rely on Wikipedia for your understanding of anything. You should go to primary sources yourself instead of allowing editors to curate and present information for you.
Irony?
Worldbank.org
I don’t get the irony. Your data is either not found or decades old. Then you shut down Wikipedia, which has sources cited.
I can make an image to display whatever info I want. Your sources are poor, or biased.
Bro it's the world bank. If you can't access it that's a problem on your fucking side not the most reliable data source used in academia for nations on the fucking planet.
Holy fucking shit is this your first time even hearing about them? Do they teach anything in your schools at all?
https://i.imgur.com/kkmn4g2.jpg
So, http://youre.fullofsh.it
Nice try though.
Lmao, good work chief. You tried nothing and are proud af.
https://databank.worldbank.org/
Here, took me 10 seconds of googling to find the main directory. You'll have to type in the search parameters yourself, because im not as nice as Awoo.
Let me understand this… you send me a url that is invalid. Then you mock me because I can’t get an invalid link to work. Then, you correct yourself and blame the issue on me, and not you.
Oh and, you forgot to switch your account back.
Different user Lib, and no. I'm mocking you for being unable to do even the most trite bit of googling.
Every accusation a confession
That doesn’t even make sense.
Also, blocked. Have a great night, nothing personal… just not into bear piles.
Fuck capitalism ✌️
It makes perfect sense- they're pointing out you're probably projecting your assumption of account swapping. Those two users are quite certainly different people with different posting habits and pretty significant history on our site.
It’s just funny how y’all flock.
There's a lot of us, and we're ideologically correct and happy to explain why.
Well, “correct” is relative and none of you seem to be willing to participate in a two-way conversation. It just ends up in failed attempts to “win” some kind of game I wasn’t aware we were playing.
I mean, this thread is a great example. I asked what countries are currently communist and successful (relative yes).
The answer included the USSR. They can’t even be bothered to know their own shit. And instead of going “oops, my bad,” like an adult, it escalates and they all sniff it out and pile on.
Honestly, most people find hexbears pretty funny (like funny sad). And when questioned on specific views, they sound very NOT communist.
I have to remind myself, hexbears are just the LEFTY extremist trolls and their methods are identical to righty extremist trolls, and to not feed the bear. (But it’s so fun to watch you all dodge questions)
For the record, I’m very left. Socialist even. Not so much communist, but we share a lot of ideas. I also believe trolling the left pushes them further center, and it is counterproductive outside of your own instance.
That is a hilarious take since I've read through it and found that you will weasel away from the issue at every possibility, including pretending not to know how the internet works. It's quite disingenuous and I'm sure that passers-by reading the exchange will come to the same conclusion.
I made myself pretty clear. The url didn’t work, and it’s not my job to find their sources after supplying my own that was disliked.
They weaseled out of my questions, so I don’t see a need to give theirs any interest.
I see you just weaseled away from everything else I said. So, your attempt at insult appears to be you looking in a mirror.
I don’t need to convince you. I know trolls won’t ever back down, even when wrong. You all have identical flawed arguments and methods of attack. I find it quite entertaining how exactly the same you all are.
But, as long as you’re not voting for the righties, I can’t really hate you. 🤷♂️
honestly, the "nuh uh, YOU" responses are too good, it's like just admitting that you're outclassed and won't bother to engage
I agree, they did that.
"nuh uh YOU" again
flawless
The awesome part is that’s what you’re doing. ❤️
I love the argument style of trolls. It’s all whatabout, and bombarding. I like to just let it play itself out. The only person who cares is them.
I bet you can’t even tell me what we all were originally talking about without making up something that eventually turns into an insult. That’s the tactic of a troll, never get to the point.
That's literally not what you just linked to lol. It's what I linked to sure. But you know how to type in a basic URL instead of a subdomain that's only used for certain links.
The url error on my part is irrelevant. You're pretending to be internet illiterate for the sake of defending a position you already know can't be defended. This is what you people always do, rather than accept that any real analysis of human conditions under socialism vs capitalism does not support capitalism you deflect.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/nFUC0UWgdGY
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.