362
who did that?! (lemmy.world)
submitted 3 years ago by [M] to c/climatememes@lemmy.world
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[–] 31 points 3 years ago (41 children)

Ask yourself "where is the greatest leverage to solve this problem?". If you think the fastest way to turn the climate ship around is to convince 7ish billion individuals to go vegan, and ride bikes... Good luck!

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  • [+] [B] 4 points 3 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (9 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 7 points 3 years ago (8 children)

    Hmm. I'm not really banking on anything. I'm just surviving. Hoping for the best but expecting something less optimal. I'm not a doomer because believe too much in love. Not that it will save us, but that it's the only thing that truly makes life worth living. Whatever it is, we're all in it together.

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  • [+] [B] 4 points 3 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (7 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago (6 children)

    I think if you love yourself and others, then it is obvious what is good and what isn't.

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  • [+] [B] 2 points 3 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (4 children)

    I mean, sure. But you can't just convince a critical mass of people to understand love. If we're gonna turn the ship, we'll need to find something else to leverage. Regulations seem like the most obvious point to me.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 years ago (3 children)

    Regulations backed by whom?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (2 children)

    What do you mean? Government. This is the only real chance given the scale and timeliness of the change needed.

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  • [–] -3 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    Yes, but a democratically elected government generally won't pass policy that isn't endorsed by many of its constituents. Policy that eg universally increases the cost of meat by placing strict limits on farmers would not do well without a significant shift in voter opinion and reduction in funding of animal agriculture lobby funding.

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  • [–] -3 points 3 years ago (4 children)

    Says a guy doing nothing? (based on below comments)

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago (3 children)

    Huh? You don't know anything about what I'm doing or not.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (2 children)

    "I'm not really banking on anything. I'm just surviving." Sorry if I misunderstood but that sounds like you're not helping?

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  • [–] 3 points 3 years ago (1 child)

    I'm not banking on anything, as in "I don't have strong faith in any proposed solutions". I'm just surviving in the sense that, like so many of us, I'm doing my best to maintain my physical and mental health during these difficult times. For me, like so many of us, "doing something" me to maintain my physical and mental health.

    I don't blame you for misunderstanding me. I can see how my previous comment could have come off that way. I do also want to say though, that "not helping" is okay too. If you don't have the capacity right now to do anything but exist, I understand. It's fuckin tough out there for a lot of people.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago

    Taking care of yourself is so important, lots of respect for that. And you are totally right, it's okay (vital in fact!) to take breaks, to get away from it all. I apologise, I've seen too many online comments saying something derogatory towards those trying to do what they can while clearly sitting on the sidelines. Really appreciate your thoughtful response!

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  • [–] -5 points 3 years ago (25 children)

    We all ought to focus on that whole 7 billion thing...or wait, isn't it 8 now? Will be 9 soon.

    Infinite population growth in a world of finite resources is not, and never will be, possible. Less people = more resources per person and higher quality of life.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 years ago (22 children)

    any policy of population control is necessarily eugenecist. you can personally favor it, but kindly keep it away from politics.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago (21 children)

    It's not eugenics, by definition, if it doesn't favor any specific traits. I never suggested anything like that at all.

    And sorry, discussion of population controls need to enter politics as that is literally the only meaningful way to fight climate change.

    But yeah, I'm not hopeful lol so you don't have much to worry about. We will probably just continue to not take any meaningful action and continue to destroy our climate and world.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago (20 children)

    It’s not eugenics, by definition, if it doesn’t favor any specific traits.

    what policy can you introduce that doesn't favor a specific trait?

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago (19 children)

    A randomized lottery system.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago (18 children)

    who gets enrolled?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (17 children)

    Literally everyone in the age range to be a potential parent. Perhaps drawn once a year. The winners can have children this year, while the others cannot. If both people in a couple win they can have two or something. Non-heteronormative couples and artificial insemination is fine. If someone wins and chooses not to have children that year or is unable for whatever that's completely fine.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (16 children)

    how do you know where everyone is? what if someone is unaware of the lottery system?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (15 children)

    Those questions also apply to ideas like democracy or public education... but I still think those things are pretty good ideas.

    All systems/ideas have implementation issues in real life. But the whole point of a randomized lottery system is to intentionally not select specific traits as much as possible. And the goal would be to continually improve this hypothetical system, constantly trying to determine if there was a trait being favored and what adjustments are needed to prevent it.

    And even something as simple as enforcing a camp fire ban during a high risk dry spell also has issues with 'how do you know where everyone is...to see if they are having a campfire' and 'what if they don't know about the ban?'. But the general concept still seems like a good idea to me.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (13 children)

    if one country did this it's genocide against that country. if a pact of countries agree, it's still genocide against them. and if every government agreed, there are still people's who will not be effected.

    every way you slice it, it's genocide. stop trying to figure out how to do genocide the right way.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (12 children)

    I'm only suggesting this in an all countries agree environment, otherwise it's pointless. The other countries with the infinite growth mindset will always out compete the ones with population controls in place. And then take those resources by force. And even if they didn't, the atmosphere is shared and there is no way around that.

    And genocide against who exactly? Everyone? There is no group being specifically targeted which is a requirement to meet the definition of genocide.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

    There is no group being specifically targeted which is a requirement to meet the definition of genocide.

    the group who can be reached by governments.

    stop trying to figure out how to do genocide the right way and just don't do genocide at all.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago

    If you call this genocide, then by your definition I fully support genocide. I just don't support it by the actual definition.

    Population control measures are the most ethical action we can take with the least amount of human suffering resulting from it. Unchecked population growth, destruction of the planet, and ever growing economic/resource inequality is what we already have going on right now. It's the status quo. And it is far far less ethical to support such a system which is creating immense suffering right now. As such, I will not stop trying to figure out how to do something that is inherently positive and ethical.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (9 children)

    in an all countries agree environment,

    you're still going to have enclaves of resistance, resulting in a genocide of those who comply.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (8 children)

    Ok, and there are enclaves of people in support pedophilia and rape and marrying 12 year olds and shit. But when the majority of a population votes in favour of a law against such things, well...fuck em. Sorry. That's democracy and it's the best we got.

    I will not support the population control measures I am proposing unless it occurs through democratic agreement.

    We already do this for literally all other laws and regulations. Not sure what your issue is.

    And I don't suppose you have any meaningful solutions to the climate crisis that can actually be implemented?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (6 children)

    I will not support the population control measures I am proposing unless it occurs through democratic agreement.

    how magnanimous of you. as long as 50%+1 of the people favor genocide, you're on board.

    Not sure what your issue is.

    i don't like genocide.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 years ago (5 children)

    as long as 50%+1...

    Yes. That's democracy. I certainly prefer it to trusting you to be a benevolent dictator. Is there another alternative to decision making I'm not aware of?

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  • [–] -1 points 3 years ago (4 children)

    i prefer consent and consensus, but i'd also prefer that genocide architects fuck right off, and we see how that goes.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (3 children)

    So I an overly simplified world where only 10 people exist. 2 of them support marrying 12 year olds (so...you know, rape). And 8 of them want to ban it.

    What do you suggest we do here?

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    i don't care to engage in your rape fantasies after you went so mask-off about authoritarianism and genocide, thank you.

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