this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2023
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Pope Francis condemned the "very strong, organised, reactionary attitude" in the US church and said Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

Pope Francis has blasted the “backwardness” of some conservatives in the US Catholic Church, saying they have replaced faith with ideology and that a correct understanding of Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

Francis’ comments were an acknowledgment of the divisions in the US Catholic Church, which has been split between progressives and conservatives who long found support in the doctrinaire papacies of St John Paul II and Benedict XVI, particularly on issues of abortion and same-sex marriage.

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[–] [email protected] 126 points 1 year ago (7 children)

These christians will drop their Pope before they drop their politics

[–] [email protected] 54 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They already have. Only Roman Catholics really care what the Pope has to say. There are far more Baptist, Methodist, Evangelical, Pentecostal, and Presbyterian in the US than Catholics.

[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Pope is the head of the Roman Catholic church, it's always been the case that only Catholics really care about what he says.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (3 children)

For reasons I can't explain, many of those denominations don't even recognize the catholic church as being Christian.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The problem is much more fundamental than this. I have repeatedly had to explain to adults, in many different contexts the subset/superset relationship. People do not know that you can be part of a superset that describes all things in a subset. For some reason you are able to graduate high school without every actually figuring this out

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

No Child Left Behind really did give out a lot of diplomas to dummies...

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

That's always boggled my mind.

I had many childhood baptist friends who claimed with disgust that the Catholic Church isn't Christian.

I just can't see the reason (there isn't any) other than needing a conservative out group.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I just can’t see the reason (there isn’t any) other than needing a conservative out group.

The reason is simple, actually. The Protestant revolution was ostensibly started with Martin Luther advertising that the pope was the antichrist.

Protestantism was basically the practice of declaring Catholicism to be a false Church. Then it evolved and they got more cordial. After 300 years of bloodshed

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Technically, at the time of Martin Luther, the Roman Church was corrupt AF, so he wasn't totally wrong. It kind of still is, but hey, who's counting.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This is a true statement. But glass houses and stones. Let's not forget he wrote the infamous "On the Jews and Their Lies", and started supporting their persecution and outright murder. Many believe that his rhetoric directly caused the antisemitic attitudes of the Nazi Party. The aforementioned book was incredibly popular among Nazis.

And the Lutherans are smart to denounce that book. Catholics could learn from a religion deciding it actually did stupid things and fixing itself.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I just didn't think it was any more or less corrupt as any other Church.

It all seems like an unironic no-true-yorkshirrman comedy sketch.

When I was in the Catholic Church they abused us 17 hours a day!

That's nothing! When I was in the Protestant Church they abused us 27 hours a day and killed us before bed time.

Etc.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I feel like Martin Luther was an idealist, an innocent "true believer" who got shocked when he saw the harsh reality of what was going on in Rome.

Then he got his reform, established a new Church... and that's where he went wrong, because sooner or later Churches gonna Church.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

TY! All those names are familiar but the events are not.

TIL.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

I'm pretty sure the reverse is true.

There are some differences in the details of each denominations beliefs enough to mark some Christians as not real Christians. If only God could just make an announcement over the PA to clear things up...

Related: How many denominations only allow their own denomination to take Communion?

[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That ship has already sailed - I was just with my conservative uncle this last weekend when he complained that the current pope is "woke"

To these people, their political ideology is their religion

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Absolutely agree. I am certain ifwe're real and appeared in person and spouted half the stuff attributed to him in the gospel they would call him "woke" too.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Absolutely no doubt. Kind of surprised no one has done a video series where you anonomize Jesus's teachings, then read them back to conservative Christians and ask what they think about them

The results would be hilarious, no doubt

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Probably because they don't want Tucker Carlson siccing a mob on them

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The pope? They'll drop Jesus Himself if it suits them

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago

They already have. Been reports of congregations who have complained the the words of Jesus are too woke and weak...

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

does anyone know off the top of their head how/when Christianity became so tightly associated with the Republican party? No way it was always so extreme in US history

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

My favourite bumper sticker ever said: The moral majority is neither

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Having lived though it in the 1990’s there was a marked turn in the politicizing of Christianity. There was a rise of mega churches and politicians who worked to make churches align to the Republican Party for government assistance. The money for what was welfare was shuffled to churches to take up services that once were secular.

The whole tenor of conversion changed. It just got mean and only got worse from there.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Interesting, I'm assuming that politicians who bought into this evangelical pandering benefited from this by getting votes/support?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Over time. It was more of a mutual benefit the government gives money to the church and the politicians got votes from the churches. At one time there were a lot more social services, not enough, but much more.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They dropped the Jesus Christ of the New Testament half a century ago, and even then they pretended he was somehow as white as mayonnaise, so why not drop his earthly mouthpiece?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

Honestly, I consider that a win. A huge reason I left the catholic faith wasn't because of the religion itself, but because of the people who claimed to follow Jesus but in practice did nothing like Jesus.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

yout are not wrong given survey data