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this post was submitted on 09 Jun 2025
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This is something that I see a lot and it's irks me the wrong way every time. I know that people on the internet get emotional, but we gotta stop abusing words. The word hostage describes something very specific, in this case it's this:
Basically a hostage is a prisoner that is specifically held captive to be used as a bargaining chip.
This is precisely the reason why the hostages taken by Hamas are called as such. They were taken with intention of using them to cut a deal with Israel later on. But in this case, Israel is very unlikely to use the people on this boat to negotiate any deal, we don't even know if they're even going to be detained or released once the ship gets routed to one Israel's ports. But if Israel does detain after the fact then that's just imprisonment.
They have absolutely used Palestinian prisoners as bargaining chips. Many imprisoned Palestinians have not been convicted of a crime.
Okay, but we're talking about this crew specifically. They serve no purpose as hostages.
No I'm talking about the people the Israli government kidnaps whether they are white or not.
The only ones ever trying to devalue the meaning of words are fascists.
Many Palestinians in Israeli prisons were put in there for resisting settlers when they started taking land.
Those are hostages, not prisoners.
But when Hamas takes hostages they are indisputably hostages.
So what term then? Political Prisoner? Arbitrarily Detained Prisoner? Torture Subject?
Genuine question, how did you come up with any of these? Do you just throw any random label without taking into account what they mean?
To be imprisoned means to be kept in confinement as a punishment. They're not prisoners by the definition of the word nor are they being tortured (like where did you even get this from?). If we were to label their current status accurately then they're arrestees in custody of Israel.
Starvation is a form of torture, and there are many reports alleging other forms of torture.
Do you have any evidence that this crew is being starved or tortured?
Palestinians in Israeli custody.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/
You understand we're talking about this crew, right? You understand you posting this has zero relevance to the claim you made or the topic at hand, right?
Sorry if I gave you the impression I was talking about the crew, but after you mentioned Hamas's captives in general, my response was referring to Israeli captives in general.
I don't have disagreements with the point you're making. I was just confused why the topic switched from the crew being detained to Palestinians being unfairly imprisoned. They're not really the same thing.
Regardless though, apparently Israel has routed the boat to Ashdod and is detaining the activists in a nearby facility until they get deported to their respective countries. So I guess this conversation doesn't mean much since debating whether or not they're hostages isn't applicable anymore.
Detained suspect, Detained for National Security or equivalent is probably what goes on the paperwork. If they're held longer than reasonable repatriation takes, they would then become prisoners of some type.
Informally, prisoner is probably used the most, in spite of whatever is actually correct.
Suspect? All evidences show that they did nothing wrong
Damn Lemmy be stupid prickly looking for fascists to hate under every bush and purity tests as far as the eye can see. Y'all are silly.
I was talking about the likely terminology the Israeli gov would use in reference to Greta and such.
Does it also mean if someone abduct someone just for vengence without any demand to the family of the victim mean he don't have a hostage?
I'm sorry, but I'm having a difficult time understanding what you're asking. Are you asking if someone counts as a hostage if they got abducted by someone else just for vengeance? If so, then no, they're not hostages. This would be considered a kidnapping.
Ok, don't you think detaining people that comitted no crimes at all is illegal?
Illegal? No, most countries arrest people on grounds of probable cause. In this case, Israel can just cite that they arrested this crew for national security reasons, which is technically legal. During their arrest they'll determine whether or not they want to file charges against them. If they do then they'll proceed to a trail, otherwise they'll be released.
They didn't find any arms and was arrested outside of israeli terroritory. It is illegal in fact the whole blockade is illegal. It is so disgusting that you defend an occupying force https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjerjzxlpvdo.amp
I'm not defending it, I'm just pointing that the detainment of this point and it's crew is technically legal. Agreeing or disagreeing with is irrelevant to the point.
Yoy are spreading the propaganda of security concerns that israel always use. They even use it to justify the 3 months of new aid entering gaza. You know very well that there is zero arms and no security concerns
That's not where the security concern comes from. If they allow this boat to land then that means their blockade isn't perfect, and there are cracks to exploit, and you can be sure that these cracks will be exploited. Also, more importantly, if they actually step foot in Gaza, there's a very high chance they'll either get killed or be taken as hostages. That will cause another round international outrage that Israel would rather avoid. It's much simpler to intercept them and send them back to their countries after contacting their countries respective embassies.
It's the occupied who should have security concerns not the occupied who been ignoring international laws for decade. Like i already said the blockade is illegal.
Whatever the activists risk their life or not is none of israel business
You really think you are smart and claim not to defend israel but everything you type show that you are a liar. At least go to one or two posts about israeli crimes and condemn them if you expect to fool us
No, I'm just giving you proper context. People like you are so dishonest because you're willing to believe and spread misinformation if it confirms your biases and you accuse anything that doesn't as being supportive of the opposite, and that's just not true.
Israel's blockade of Gaza is illegal under international law, but the interception and detainment of these activists is not illegal under Israeli law, which is the legal framework that matters here.