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Framework’s first desktop is a strange—but unique—mini ITX gaming PC (arstechnica.com)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[–] 50 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (33 children)

Holy moly this is awesome! I am in for the 128GB SKU.

That's 96GB of usable VRAM! And way more CPU bandwidth than any desktop Zen chip.

I know people are going to complain about non upgradable memory, but you can just replace the board, and in this case it’s so worth it for the speed/power efficiency. This isn’t artificial crippling, it physically has to be soldered, at least until LPCAMM catches on.

My only ask would be a full X16 (or at least a physical X16/electrical x8) PCIe slot or breakout ribbon. X4 would be a bit of a bottleneck for some GPUs/workloads… Does Strix Halo even support that?

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  • [–] 29 points 2 years ago (10 children)

    I understand the memory constraints but it does feel weird for framework, is all I have to say. But that's also the general trajectory of computing from what it seems. I really want lpcamm to catch on!

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  • [–] 34 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    Apparently Framework did try to get AMD to use LPCAMM, but it just didn't work from a signal integrity standpoint at the kind of speeds they need to run the memory at.

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  • [–] 19 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Sounds like it doesn't bode well for the future of DIMMs at all, TBH.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago*

    My AM5 system doesn't post with 128GB of 5600 DDR5 at higher than 4400 at JEDEC timings and voltage. 2 DIMMs are fine. 4 DIMMs... rip. So I'd say the present of DIMMs is already a bit shaky. DIMMs are great for lots of cheap RAM. I paid a lot less than what I'd have to pay for the equivalent size of RAM in a Framework desktop.

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  • [–] 23 points 2 years ago* (4 children)

    Eventually most system RAM will have to be packaged anyway. Physics dictates that one pays a penalty going over pins and mobo traces, and it gets more severe with every advancement.

    It's possible that external RAM will eventually evolve into a "2nd tier" of system memory, for background processes, spillover, inactive programs/data, things like that.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    It's already fourth tier after L1, L2, L3 caches.

    Maybe something like optane will make a comeback. Having 16gb of soldered RAM and 500gb of relatively slow, but inexpensive optane RAM would be great.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (6 children)

    What's a SKU? Google just says "Stock Keeping Unit", but I don't think that's correct in this context.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (12 children)

    but you can just replace the board

    The board is like, the whole computer tho. The mobo, CPU, GPU and RAM are all the same component. It's everything Framework is supposed to oppose. That took them what, 4 years? to throw away their values?

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago (10 children)

    They also announced three other products (one new, two refreshes) which are still being actively developed and are fully-modular devices at low cost. If they're "throwing away their values," they're not doing it very well.

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  • [–] -3 points 2 years ago* (9 children)

    It's never a single step process. These things happen slowly, bit by bit. It's the beginning of the end.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (8 children)

    If this is it happening bit by bit, then why is most of the news about them doubling down on their principles? Why did they make clear what they were doing and why, and talk about their work to make it modular, instead of trying to hide it or sweep it under the rug?

    This sort of doomerism and slippery slope purity test nonsense is exactly why niche companies that do what people value eventually go under, leaving us with just the awful ones. This isn't a betrayal of their values. This isn't the beginning of the end. It's just a choice they made, and all of the other choices they made confirm that they're still doing stuff the way they were.

    Edit: I'm not saying you have to buy it, or that you shouldn't make clear to the company you don't think this comports with what you want them to value. But writing them off forever based on this one product seems so self-defeating.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago (7 children)

    If this is it happening bit by bit, then why is most of the news about them doubling down on their principles?

    Its called marketing.

    Why did they make clear what they were doing and why

    ...I don't understand the question. Why wouldn't they? Why does being clear about why they've abandoned their mission excuse anything?

    exactly why niche companies that do what people value

    That's the opposite of what's happening though.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago (6 children)

    Its called marketing.

    They're actually building those devices. It's not marketing if you can buy them.

    Why wouldn't they?

    Because most companies do. They gloss over the shifts so that they can focus on other stuff.

    Why does being clear about why they've abandoned their mission excuse anything?

    Because it shows that they haven't. They talked about the work they put into trying to make it modular.

    That's the opposite of what's happening though.

    For this one product, maybe. But again, this was one of the four products they announced yesterday.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

    It's not marketing if you can buy them.

    ...yes? It is? Why would you market a product that no one can buy? LOL

    Because most companies do.

    And that means they should?

    They talked about the work they put into trying to make it modular.

    "Aw sorry, we really tried to make something" doesn't cut it. If you can't do it, don't do it. Simple as.

    But again, this was one of the four products they announced yesterday.

    How many products that are antithetical to their entire stated purpose do they need to make before you see that as a red flag?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago* (4 children)

    ...yes? It is?

    Sorry. It's not just marketing if you can buy them.

    And that means they should?

    Of course not! What do you think I'm arguing for? I'm saying that if they were trying to make some kind of sneaky change, they wouldn't have taken five minutes to talk about it in their big event.

    "Aw sorry, we really tried to make something" doesn't cut it. If you can't do it, don't do it. Simple as.

    This ignores the realities of running a company. Once you've sunk development dollars into a project, you can't just walk away from it. You have to recoup your investments somehow, or you just end up hemorrhaging money and go out of business and can't do anything ever again.

    How many products that are antithetical to their entire stated purpose do they need to make before you see that as a red flag?

    Well it needs to not be a single component in a product that's a tiny minority of their business, for one thing.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    I'm saying that if they were trying to make some kind of sneaky change, they wouldn't have taken five minutes to talk about it in their big event.

    I'm not worried at all about them being "sneaky", I am worried about them abandoning their mission. Being upfront about why they're doing that changes nothing.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago* (2 children)

    You're ignoring everything else I said because you don't agree with one semantic point of a partial response, so here it is again.

    Most of the time, a company can't afford to just not release a product they worked on. They talked about why it didn't turn out the way they wanted to in the announcement stream (the laws of physics), but assuming they had already done the investment into the R&D to produce the box, they can't just decide "never mind." If they do it too much, they go out of business.

    EDIT: also, you said "bit by bit" in your original message. You don't do things bit by bit if you're not trying to be sneaky.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    you don't agree with one semantic point

    This has nothing to do with semantics.

    a company can't afford to just not release a product they worked on

    I already addressed this above.

    They talked about why it didn't turn out the way they wanted

    And I talked about how I don't care why. And neither should you.

    You don't do things bit by bit if you're not trying to be sneaky.

    Yes? You do. Changing the entire direction of a company doesn't happen overnight, regardless of whether you want to be sneaky or not.

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