▲ 297 ▼ AI is ruining the internet (www.businessinsider.com) submitted 3 years ago by 2tone@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world 72 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] ChocoboRocket@lemmy.world 15 points 3 years ago (2 children) Only thing I heard about zoom is their back to office? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 67 points 3 years ago* (4 children) They changed their TOS to allow themselves to license everyone’s videos for A.I. training (or anything else). One of the execs tried to say they weren’t doing that but unless they change their TOS, they can and no doubt will. For some people, that’s a personal privacy issue but for people who have Zoom calls about, for instance, health records, it makes Zoom illegal. And even if it’s not illegal, companies use video calls for discussing proprietary information they don’t want to be potentially licensed to competitors. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] brihuang95@sopuli.xyz 18 points 3 years ago (2 children) Wow, wtf...it seems like every big tech company is going through "enshittification". Is there an open-source alternative for Zoom that is hopefully more privacy-focused? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 9 points 3 years ago (1 child) I haven’t used it but the !selfhosted community has mentioned Jitsy Meet before. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] brihuang95@sopuli.xyz 8 points 3 years ago Just discovered it too from !privacy. Reading about it now, it's FOSS which is always good. Here's the link: https://meet.jit.si/ permalink fedilink source parent [–] inso@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 3 years ago There's element call as well. (https://call.element.io) permalink fedilink source parent [–] billiam0202@lemmy.world 10 points 3 years ago (2 children) Apparently they did: As of Monday afternoon, [section 10.4] has a new paragraph in bold below it: "Notwithstanding the above, Zoom will not use audio, video or chat Customer Content to train our artificial intelligence models without your consent.” How exactly they obtain customer "consent" isn't disclosed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 12 points 3 years ago (1 child) I’m not so worried about Zoom adding fancy autocomplete (“training our models”) as I am with them licensing it out. This is what section 10.4 says before the caveat: You agree to grant and hereby grant Zoom a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable, and transferable license and all other rights required or necessary to redistribute, publish, import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, copy, distribute, translate, transcribe, create derivative works, and process Customer Content and to perform all acts with respect to the Customer Content, including AI and ML training and testing. I don’t think that extra caveat even addresses licensing meeting content to third parties for training A.I. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] billiam0202@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago* A bit later in the article also addresses this: That consent, [Zoom Chief Product Officer Smita] Hashim closed, still won’t allow third parties to train an AI off your calls: “And even if you chose to share your data, it will not be used for training of any third-party models.” However, glancing through the ToS I don't see where Zoom prohibits third-party AI training, only prohibiting training their own models. On the other hand, data for training LLMs is apparently the modern gold-rush and it's feasible that Zoom wouldn't want that data to be accessed by any potential competitors. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 1 point 3 years ago you agreed to the TOS, therefore they have your consent. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Szymon@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 years ago (6 children) Does software exists that encrypts video and audio data on one end, and requires a key to decrypt on the other end? Anyone looking at the feed without keys would be seeing garbage. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] rndll@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago Zoom already does 256bit AES end-to-end encryption. From what I understand it isn't the live calls but the files and recorded calls you save on their servers after are what they would use for AI training. Zoom already updated their TOS a few hours ago to supposedly address the issue. https://gizmodo.com/zoom-ai-privacy-policy-train-on-your-data-1850712655 Update, August 7, 5:06 p.m.: After this story was published, Zoom issued an update to its Terms of Service. The article has been updated to reflect the change. permalink fedilink source parent [–] pjol@kbin.social 5 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child) If those you wish to have a video call with already have each others phone numbers then Signal is a option. It supports up to 40 participants. Available on Android, iPhone, Windows, Mac and Linux. Signal has other great chat/messaging features too. Also a unofficial community on Kbin permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pjol@kbin.social 1 point 3 years ago* Oh,forgot to mention there is support for sharing screen and separate window on desktop. Unsure about mobile clients. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ICastFist@programming.dev 3 points 3 years ago Zoom and MS Teams both seem to have E2E encryption for 1-on-1 calls. They own the code, tho, so whether they really cannot decrypt the stuff is a matter of trust. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PoopingCough@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago I'm not sure about the technicals, but there are some services that are HIPAA compliant, which I assume means something similar to the end-to-end encryption you're describing. WebeX is the one I know one of my local hospital systems uses. permalink fedilink source parent [–] whats_a_refoogee@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 years ago Yes. End to end encryption between two parties is pretty trivial to implement. Video and audio is no exception. permalink fedilink source parent [–] hedgehog@ttrpg.network 1 point 3 years ago Yes, E2EE video call software exists, but then you’d be using something other than Zoom. Theoretically you could have everyone in a call use a plugin that “added” E2EE to Zoom, but I’m not certain such a plugin exists - and even if it did, ensuring everyone you communicate with Zoom uses it would be enough of a barrier that it’d be simpler to just use something other than Zoom that has E2EE baked in. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PrincessLeiasCat@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 years ago Holy shit how did I not hear about this but the back to the office thing was everywhere? Fuck that, no. No that is not ok. Fuck. FUCK why is everything going to this shit? permalink fedilink source parent [–] ICastFist@programming.dev 4 points 3 years ago They also gave an opt-in to allow all your data to be used to train AI models. You auto opt-in if you use any of their AI assisted services permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 67 points 3 years ago* (4 children) They changed their TOS to allow themselves to license everyone’s videos for A.I. training (or anything else). One of the execs tried to say they weren’t doing that but unless they change their TOS, they can and no doubt will. For some people, that’s a personal privacy issue but for people who have Zoom calls about, for instance, health records, it makes Zoom illegal. And even if it’s not illegal, companies use video calls for discussing proprietary information they don’t want to be potentially licensed to competitors. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] brihuang95@sopuli.xyz 18 points 3 years ago (2 children) Wow, wtf...it seems like every big tech company is going through "enshittification". Is there an open-source alternative for Zoom that is hopefully more privacy-focused? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 9 points 3 years ago (1 child) I haven’t used it but the !selfhosted community has mentioned Jitsy Meet before. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] brihuang95@sopuli.xyz 8 points 3 years ago Just discovered it too from !privacy. Reading about it now, it's FOSS which is always good. Here's the link: https://meet.jit.si/ permalink fedilink source parent [–] inso@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 3 years ago There's element call as well. (https://call.element.io) permalink fedilink source parent [–] billiam0202@lemmy.world 10 points 3 years ago (2 children) Apparently they did: As of Monday afternoon, [section 10.4] has a new paragraph in bold below it: "Notwithstanding the above, Zoom will not use audio, video or chat Customer Content to train our artificial intelligence models without your consent.” How exactly they obtain customer "consent" isn't disclosed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 12 points 3 years ago (1 child) I’m not so worried about Zoom adding fancy autocomplete (“training our models”) as I am with them licensing it out. This is what section 10.4 says before the caveat: You agree to grant and hereby grant Zoom a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable, and transferable license and all other rights required or necessary to redistribute, publish, import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, copy, distribute, translate, transcribe, create derivative works, and process Customer Content and to perform all acts with respect to the Customer Content, including AI and ML training and testing. I don’t think that extra caveat even addresses licensing meeting content to third parties for training A.I. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] billiam0202@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago* A bit later in the article also addresses this: That consent, [Zoom Chief Product Officer Smita] Hashim closed, still won’t allow third parties to train an AI off your calls: “And even if you chose to share your data, it will not be used for training of any third-party models.” However, glancing through the ToS I don't see where Zoom prohibits third-party AI training, only prohibiting training their own models. On the other hand, data for training LLMs is apparently the modern gold-rush and it's feasible that Zoom wouldn't want that data to be accessed by any potential competitors. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 1 point 3 years ago you agreed to the TOS, therefore they have your consent. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Szymon@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 years ago (6 children) Does software exists that encrypts video and audio data on one end, and requires a key to decrypt on the other end? Anyone looking at the feed without keys would be seeing garbage. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] rndll@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago Zoom already does 256bit AES end-to-end encryption. From what I understand it isn't the live calls but the files and recorded calls you save on their servers after are what they would use for AI training. Zoom already updated their TOS a few hours ago to supposedly address the issue. https://gizmodo.com/zoom-ai-privacy-policy-train-on-your-data-1850712655 Update, August 7, 5:06 p.m.: After this story was published, Zoom issued an update to its Terms of Service. The article has been updated to reflect the change. permalink fedilink source parent [–] pjol@kbin.social 5 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child) If those you wish to have a video call with already have each others phone numbers then Signal is a option. It supports up to 40 participants. Available on Android, iPhone, Windows, Mac and Linux. Signal has other great chat/messaging features too. Also a unofficial community on Kbin permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pjol@kbin.social 1 point 3 years ago* Oh,forgot to mention there is support for sharing screen and separate window on desktop. Unsure about mobile clients. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ICastFist@programming.dev 3 points 3 years ago Zoom and MS Teams both seem to have E2E encryption for 1-on-1 calls. They own the code, tho, so whether they really cannot decrypt the stuff is a matter of trust. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PoopingCough@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago I'm not sure about the technicals, but there are some services that are HIPAA compliant, which I assume means something similar to the end-to-end encryption you're describing. WebeX is the one I know one of my local hospital systems uses. permalink fedilink source parent [–] whats_a_refoogee@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 years ago Yes. End to end encryption between two parties is pretty trivial to implement. Video and audio is no exception. permalink fedilink source parent [–] hedgehog@ttrpg.network 1 point 3 years ago Yes, E2EE video call software exists, but then you’d be using something other than Zoom. Theoretically you could have everyone in a call use a plugin that “added” E2EE to Zoom, but I’m not certain such a plugin exists - and even if it did, ensuring everyone you communicate with Zoom uses it would be enough of a barrier that it’d be simpler to just use something other than Zoom that has E2EE baked in. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PrincessLeiasCat@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 years ago Holy shit how did I not hear about this but the back to the office thing was everywhere? Fuck that, no. No that is not ok. Fuck. FUCK why is everything going to this shit? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] brihuang95@sopuli.xyz 18 points 3 years ago (2 children) Wow, wtf...it seems like every big tech company is going through "enshittification". Is there an open-source alternative for Zoom that is hopefully more privacy-focused? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 9 points 3 years ago (1 child) I haven’t used it but the !selfhosted community has mentioned Jitsy Meet before. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] brihuang95@sopuli.xyz 8 points 3 years ago Just discovered it too from !privacy. Reading about it now, it's FOSS which is always good. Here's the link: https://meet.jit.si/ permalink fedilink source parent [–] inso@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 3 years ago There's element call as well. (https://call.element.io) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 9 points 3 years ago (1 child) I haven’t used it but the !selfhosted community has mentioned Jitsy Meet before. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] brihuang95@sopuli.xyz 8 points 3 years ago Just discovered it too from !privacy. Reading about it now, it's FOSS which is always good. Here's the link: https://meet.jit.si/ permalink fedilink source parent
[–] brihuang95@sopuli.xyz 8 points 3 years ago Just discovered it too from !privacy. Reading about it now, it's FOSS which is always good. Here's the link: https://meet.jit.si/ permalink fedilink source parent
[–] inso@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 3 years ago There's element call as well. (https://call.element.io) permalink fedilink source parent
[–] billiam0202@lemmy.world 10 points 3 years ago (2 children) Apparently they did: As of Monday afternoon, [section 10.4] has a new paragraph in bold below it: "Notwithstanding the above, Zoom will not use audio, video or chat Customer Content to train our artificial intelligence models without your consent.” How exactly they obtain customer "consent" isn't disclosed. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 12 points 3 years ago (1 child) I’m not so worried about Zoom adding fancy autocomplete (“training our models”) as I am with them licensing it out. This is what section 10.4 says before the caveat: You agree to grant and hereby grant Zoom a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable, and transferable license and all other rights required or necessary to redistribute, publish, import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, copy, distribute, translate, transcribe, create derivative works, and process Customer Content and to perform all acts with respect to the Customer Content, including AI and ML training and testing. I don’t think that extra caveat even addresses licensing meeting content to third parties for training A.I. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] billiam0202@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago* A bit later in the article also addresses this: That consent, [Zoom Chief Product Officer Smita] Hashim closed, still won’t allow third parties to train an AI off your calls: “And even if you chose to share your data, it will not be used for training of any third-party models.” However, glancing through the ToS I don't see where Zoom prohibits third-party AI training, only prohibiting training their own models. On the other hand, data for training LLMs is apparently the modern gold-rush and it's feasible that Zoom wouldn't want that data to be accessed by any potential competitors. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 1 point 3 years ago you agreed to the TOS, therefore they have your consent. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 12 points 3 years ago (1 child) I’m not so worried about Zoom adding fancy autocomplete (“training our models”) as I am with them licensing it out. This is what section 10.4 says before the caveat: You agree to grant and hereby grant Zoom a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable, and transferable license and all other rights required or necessary to redistribute, publish, import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, copy, distribute, translate, transcribe, create derivative works, and process Customer Content and to perform all acts with respect to the Customer Content, including AI and ML training and testing. I don’t think that extra caveat even addresses licensing meeting content to third parties for training A.I. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] billiam0202@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago* A bit later in the article also addresses this: That consent, [Zoom Chief Product Officer Smita] Hashim closed, still won’t allow third parties to train an AI off your calls: “And even if you chose to share your data, it will not be used for training of any third-party models.” However, glancing through the ToS I don't see where Zoom prohibits third-party AI training, only prohibiting training their own models. On the other hand, data for training LLMs is apparently the modern gold-rush and it's feasible that Zoom wouldn't want that data to be accessed by any potential competitors. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] billiam0202@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago* A bit later in the article also addresses this: That consent, [Zoom Chief Product Officer Smita] Hashim closed, still won’t allow third parties to train an AI off your calls: “And even if you chose to share your data, it will not be used for training of any third-party models.” However, glancing through the ToS I don't see where Zoom prohibits third-party AI training, only prohibiting training their own models. On the other hand, data for training LLMs is apparently the modern gold-rush and it's feasible that Zoom wouldn't want that data to be accessed by any potential competitors. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 1 point 3 years ago you agreed to the TOS, therefore they have your consent. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Szymon@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 years ago (6 children) Does software exists that encrypts video and audio data on one end, and requires a key to decrypt on the other end? Anyone looking at the feed without keys would be seeing garbage. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 12 child comments replies: [–] rndll@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago Zoom already does 256bit AES end-to-end encryption. From what I understand it isn't the live calls but the files and recorded calls you save on their servers after are what they would use for AI training. Zoom already updated their TOS a few hours ago to supposedly address the issue. https://gizmodo.com/zoom-ai-privacy-policy-train-on-your-data-1850712655 Update, August 7, 5:06 p.m.: After this story was published, Zoom issued an update to its Terms of Service. The article has been updated to reflect the change. permalink fedilink source parent [–] pjol@kbin.social 5 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child) If those you wish to have a video call with already have each others phone numbers then Signal is a option. It supports up to 40 participants. Available on Android, iPhone, Windows, Mac and Linux. Signal has other great chat/messaging features too. Also a unofficial community on Kbin permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pjol@kbin.social 1 point 3 years ago* Oh,forgot to mention there is support for sharing screen and separate window on desktop. Unsure about mobile clients. permalink fedilink source parent [–] ICastFist@programming.dev 3 points 3 years ago Zoom and MS Teams both seem to have E2E encryption for 1-on-1 calls. They own the code, tho, so whether they really cannot decrypt the stuff is a matter of trust. permalink fedilink source parent [–] PoopingCough@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago I'm not sure about the technicals, but there are some services that are HIPAA compliant, which I assume means something similar to the end-to-end encryption you're describing. WebeX is the one I know one of my local hospital systems uses. permalink fedilink source parent [–] whats_a_refoogee@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 years ago Yes. End to end encryption between two parties is pretty trivial to implement. Video and audio is no exception. permalink fedilink source parent [–] hedgehog@ttrpg.network 1 point 3 years ago Yes, E2EE video call software exists, but then you’d be using something other than Zoom. Theoretically you could have everyone in a call use a plugin that “added” E2EE to Zoom, but I’m not certain such a plugin exists - and even if it did, ensuring everyone you communicate with Zoom uses it would be enough of a barrier that it’d be simpler to just use something other than Zoom that has E2EE baked in. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] rndll@lemm.ee 7 points 3 years ago Zoom already does 256bit AES end-to-end encryption. From what I understand it isn't the live calls but the files and recorded calls you save on their servers after are what they would use for AI training. Zoom already updated their TOS a few hours ago to supposedly address the issue. https://gizmodo.com/zoom-ai-privacy-policy-train-on-your-data-1850712655 Update, August 7, 5:06 p.m.: After this story was published, Zoom issued an update to its Terms of Service. The article has been updated to reflect the change. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] pjol@kbin.social 5 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (1 child) If those you wish to have a video call with already have each others phone numbers then Signal is a option. It supports up to 40 participants. Available on Android, iPhone, Windows, Mac and Linux. Signal has other great chat/messaging features too. Also a unofficial community on Kbin permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] pjol@kbin.social 1 point 3 years ago* Oh,forgot to mention there is support for sharing screen and separate window on desktop. Unsure about mobile clients. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] pjol@kbin.social 1 point 3 years ago* Oh,forgot to mention there is support for sharing screen and separate window on desktop. Unsure about mobile clients. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 3 points 3 years ago Zoom and MS Teams both seem to have E2E encryption for 1-on-1 calls. They own the code, tho, so whether they really cannot decrypt the stuff is a matter of trust. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PoopingCough@lemmy.world 2 points 3 years ago I'm not sure about the technicals, but there are some services that are HIPAA compliant, which I assume means something similar to the end-to-end encryption you're describing. WebeX is the one I know one of my local hospital systems uses. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] whats_a_refoogee@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 years ago Yes. End to end encryption between two parties is pretty trivial to implement. Video and audio is no exception. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] hedgehog@ttrpg.network 1 point 3 years ago Yes, E2EE video call software exists, but then you’d be using something other than Zoom. Theoretically you could have everyone in a call use a plugin that “added” E2EE to Zoom, but I’m not certain such a plugin exists - and even if it did, ensuring everyone you communicate with Zoom uses it would be enough of a barrier that it’d be simpler to just use something other than Zoom that has E2EE baked in. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PrincessLeiasCat@sh.itjust.works 5 points 3 years ago Holy shit how did I not hear about this but the back to the office thing was everywhere? Fuck that, no. No that is not ok. Fuck. FUCK why is everything going to this shit? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 4 points 3 years ago They also gave an opt-in to allow all your data to be used to train AI models. You auto opt-in if you use any of their AI assisted services permalink fedilink source parent