To respond to the first part of your post; It's more of a talking point to get the liberals away from thinking that discussing Trump's garbage of the day and the :vote: ing in 2028 is somehow effective at anything. I don't actually want a civil insurrection, the US government would win with support of the chuds.

However, having this discussion among comrades, and even with liberals (the ones who genuinely want progressive changes) gets things moving in the right direction since it isolates the US federal government and the Democratic Party. If we are going to play at the state level, then both of those entities are going to stand in the way of achieving our goals. Does that make sense?

I will also mention that these topics are complex and honestly difficult for me to organize my thoughts here in a place that is "friendly" like Hexbear. Thanks for responding, and whether the discussion happens here or irl, agree or disagree, I hope as comrades "iron sharpens iron" and we will both come away with a more developed understanding of the age old "what is to be done?".

For discussion purposes though, I'll respond to your question: as socialists we understand that the ownership class will not give way to the workers peacefully. I don't wish to go to war. I hope to avert it. At the same time we do need to discuss this head on (as you are with your question). We need to understand that an violent incursion would be a suicide mission and it would be to our benefit to tip the scales until it's not an absolute blowout.

Another angle: building media and political infrastructure that will reach out to these people and bring them somewhere into the fold (anyone who is not actually part of the ownership class). We saw from the Bernie campaigns how actually doing politics can engage significant numbers of people from unexpected places. On the west coast we have the upper hand over racist/transphobic culture (kinda sorta, big asterisk, let's not tangent quite yet). The movement (or party apparatus thereof) can not allow these people to be brought up to leadership positions (unless they demonstrate that they've shed those anti-worker, anti-equiality convictions). They can still be made useful at the fringe , and our movement can be poised with open arms (at the fringe) for people who realize that US led capitalism is doomed to fail. We know that capitalism will be unable to survive its own contradictions, so it becomes a bit of a waiting game when it comes to these folks, but we aren't fucking Democrats so we will have rural outreach programs etc...

There will be true and through fashys out there, but I think it's very fring, any they'll find their way over to "greater Idaho" and stfu or something, most likely.