this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2024
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*cross-posted from lemmy.ml

sources

on the dprk

on the rok

debunking of anticipated liberal comments

norf korea no food

malnutrition was in fact a thing during the 1990s, though the portrayals of this time period, the so called "arduous march" in westen media are usually exaggerated. mostly omitted by american-allied media is the fact that those difficulties were caused by the inhumane and terrorist western sanctions and embargo against the dprk, as well as the cia-backed illegal and undemocratic dissolution of the ussr. nowadays problems regarding food security have pretty much ceased to exist in the country.

hermit kingdom

first of all, the term itself is nothing but racist, orientalist nonsense, but whatever... the dprk is in no way a kingdom, its democratic model of governance, while obviously imperfect and worthy of (constructive) criticism, is explained in the constitution and infographic linked above.

furthermore, the county is neither "reclusive", nor internationally isolated. the dprk enjoys very friendly relations with fellow aes china, cuba, laos and vietnam, as well as anti-imperialist nations like iran, russia and palestine. the reason you dont hear much from inside the country is due to western press not wanting to report the truth.

no lights, no electricity

the famous "no lights"-photo is a photoshopped fake initially circulated by a southern far-right tabloid. here is an actual image of east asia, including the korean peninsula:

haircut police

unlike south korea, the dprk never had such policies. here is a very entertaining video debunking that myth.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (28 children)

I lived in Seoul and I speak nearly fluent Korean

Photo on the right seems to be from like the 60s or 70s. Seoul does not look like that today, not even close. So that is a blatant lie number 1.

"many people too poor to afford housing' homelessness is lower in SK than in the US by a HUGE amount. So that is blatant lie number 2.

'slums like this are common' Absolutely not. There's only a couple remaining slums, and they don't look like the one in the photo there bc again, that photo is from like 60 years ago. There small number of slums (there's like 3) that still exist are currently being removed and the residents rehoused. So there is blatant lie number 3

'kill themselves by the millions' suicide rate is high but not that high and has been falling for over 10 years. Exaggeration

'only recently began to liberalize' 1988 is recent to you? That'd be blatant lie number 4, and to be honest it's quite disrespectful to the many south Koreans who struggled against the dictatorship for you to minimize their accomplishment like that

'the famous "no lights"-photo' there isn't a "the famous 'no lights' photo" there's many of them and its because NK often doesn't have fuel to keep the power running 24/7 due to sanctions so they practice energy rationing and shut down the power at night. blatant lie number 5

I'm not gonna get into your stuff on the left hand column abt the DPRK but suffice it to say, none of what you wrote there is known for certain to be true because of how tight the flow of information out of that land is.

Did you make this image? why do you feel the need to lie? Or do you just not know what you are talking about?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 months ago (7 children)

"many people too poor to afford housing' homelessness is lower in SK than in the US by a HUGE amount. So that is blatant lie number 2.

Homelessness in the US is pretty high. A country having lower homelessness than the US is an extremely low bar. Compare with the DPRK, which has near-zero homelessness.

to be honest it's quite disrespectful to the many south Koreans who struggled against the dictatorship for you to minimize their accomplishment like that

lmao what concern troll bullshit is this? The dictatorship is still easily, easily within living memory, it doesn't insult the people who struggled against it to acknowledge that obvious fact.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Homelessness in the US is pretty high. A country having lower homelessness than the US is an extremely low bar.

It is VASTLY lower to be clear. 1.7 out of 10k, vs 19.5 out out of 10k in America

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_homeless_population

1.7 out of 10,000, obv that number should be zero, but does it sound like it's true to say that 'many people' can't afford housing and that slums from the 1960s are still around and are numerous? Or does it sound like a distortion made to make it seem like SK consists of acres and acres of shanty towns like Rio?

I compare with the US bc most of us here live in the US and I dind't want to bother with finding the exact stat bc I was getting ready for bed when I wrote that.

The dictatorship is still easily, easily within living memory,

OP is obv using that line to make it sound like SK is still basically a dictatorship. It's a distortion of the facts at best, outright lie at worst.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

you keep acting like the 1988 upheaval made the south a nearly perfect utopia and pretend like any criticism of the south is now unwarranted and only done by bad-faith actors.

you didnt source any of your claims btw and still expect to be hailed as the harbinger of truth, while pretty much all of your argumentation has been a mix of shifting the goalposts, concern trolling and outright falsifications of what others are saying. fucking tsargrad tv has more intellectual honesty than you.

:PIGPOOPBALLS:

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

lmfao

a nearly perfect utopia

I've been exceptionally clear in EVREY fucking reply I have given that there is plenty to criticize in the South. Are you so goddamn dishonest that you feel the need to lie to people when the evidence that your claim is false is present right here on this exact fucking webpage? Here's what I said

There are factual problems in SK like sexism, homophobia, corruption, poor enforcement of labor laws and more.

yes quite a number of people are unhappy due to capitalist alienation, problems with sexism and toxic work culture etc.

Work remains for them

many live in poor quality housing

There are many many many problems in SK

Do you just lie like this all fucking day in real life too? Anyone on this webpage with a high school level of reading comprehension can see that I don't think SK is 'nearly perfect'. I'm talking about the positives because you are misrepresenting the facts to make them look like dystopia. When I talk to some dumb lib who wants to use Korea as an example of how America is awesome bc we helped the south and they build a perfect capitalist society, or a Kpop stan who thinks its perfect, I will talk about the negatives. It's because I care about the facts and I do fact-based materialist analysis.

shifting the goalposts,

Good lord, you are the one throwing out random shit that has nothing to do with anything I said, like that they have a bunch of churches. And just to show how honest I am, I will acknowledge that yes it is of course true that they have a problem with a lot of people belonging to insane right wing reactionary churches. Happy? I'm fine with shit talking the parts of Korea that deserve to be shit talked. I'll throw in another for good measure, they have a serious problem with bigotry and colorism against those from south Asia, as well as against those who are not """pure blood""" Korean, and racial discrimination is not illegal. Toxic beauty standards against women also does serious damage against the psychology of women there, esp growing teenage girls, many of whom still wear covid masks, not bc they are afraid of the virus, but bc they are afraid they are not pretty enough to show their real faces. I bet you didn't know all that, did you? Because you don't know shit about South Korea (or you do know but lie anyway, either way doesn't look good for you)

And btw, pls give me a citation, a real fucking citation not 'prolewiki' for these claims (the fact that you are old enough to have traveled to SK in 2007 but not mature enough to realize that 'prolewiki' doesn't qualify as a reliable source does not reflect well on you) You are the one who made these claims in the first place, you are the one who needs to demonstrate that they are true with real sources.

  • That your photo is of current day Korea (I notice you didn't address this claim at all, because you know you are damn liar)

  • That 'many people' cant afford housing

  • that shanty towns are common

  • that NK has enough energy to keep the lights on 24/7 and the numerous images showing them to be dark at night are fake.

EDIT:

And you know what, to further emphasize my honesty, I'm gonna walk back my earlier comment about suicides. While it is not literally 'by the millions' and it is still true that it has trended downward over the past ~10 years. It is indeed super high, one of the highest in the world and it's fair to bring it up. I was overzealous in criticizing that claim , I guess bc I wrote that comment right before bed last night when I was tired and cranky. I can admit when I was wrong, can you?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

lemmy.ml has the pigpoopballs emoji now!?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

nah, i just happen to know the shortcut

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

OP is obv using that line to make it sound like SK is still basically a dictatorship. It's a distortion of the facts at best, outright lie at worst.

~~It's a colonial dictatorship of the bourgeoisie~~ OP is explicitly saying that it isn't something anymore and you're saying that he's using that to say it still is

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

Yea obviously they are lib and bourgeois.

OP is explicitly saying that it isn't something anymore

The phrasing 'spent it's first 42 years as a dictatorship and only recently began to liberalize' is a distortion. Very obviously so for 2 reasons I will enumerate

1 The country is going to celebrate 80 years of independence from the Japanese fascists on August 15 of next year. They liberalized about 36 years ago. They have spent roughly half of their existence as a dictatorship, roughly half as a liberal republic. The phrasing '42 years' vs 'only recently' was clearly chosen to imply that the 'recent' liberal period is vastly shorter. Why use an exact number for one but a wishy-washy and vague phrase like 'recently' for the other? bc if OP used the actual dates and exact numbers, it would not sound as bad as OP wants it to. 42 vs 36 doesn't sound bad enough for OP, so he has to be vague with his numbers. Why not keep it exact? It is a distortion of the facts meant to fool people who do not know when they gained independence.

2 'began to liberalize' is a phrasing clearly meant to imply that they have not yet achieved very much liberalization. They did not 'begin to liberalize' they have liberalized and they are a full fledged bourgeois liberal republic. (and obv that's not great but its far better than being a fascist dictatorship)

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