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Is Telegram really an encrypted messaging app? (blog.cryptographyengineering.com)
submitted 10 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[-] [email protected] 151 points 10 months ago

No.

As a kind of a weird bonus, activating end-to-end encryption in Telegram is oddly difficult for non-expert users to actually do.

[-] [email protected] 48 points 10 months ago

As a kind of a weird bonus, activating end-to-end encryption in Telegram is oddly difficult for non-expert users to actually do.

No, it's not. It's very easy. In the bottom right corner there is a pencil button to compose a new message and right there it asks which tpye of chat to start. Secret chat is the second topmost option after group chat. Really not hidden or complicated at all.

[-] [email protected] 20 points 10 months ago

It’s three clicks. And it opens a separate chat from the existing one. It’s obscure enough that you could say the UX deprioritizes (which at best is not an actively malicious design choice) usage of end-to-end encryption.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

Anything harder than usual in the same application means it won't usually be used.

And encryption is about collective immunity. So everything should be encrypted.

[-] [email protected] -5 points 10 months ago

It’s three clicks.

So it's only three clicks, ergo easy.

And it opens a separate chat from the existing one.

I don't see the problem. The secret one has the lock icon to clearly mark it. There's no way one would accidentally pick the wrong chat. Delete the old, unencrypted one to be sure.

It’s obscure enough that you could say the UX deprioritizes (which at best is not an actively malicious design choice) usage of end-to-end encryption.

I agreed in another comment that there should be an "encrypted by default" option somewhere. I'm not claiming that it's perfect but the claim in the blog that it's super complicated is just not true. At least calls are P2P-encrypted by default.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

Ah good point, gotta delete the old unencrypted chat too to avoid confusion. That’s definitely more than just 3 clicks.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

Yeah I mean if you started one. If you went in with a secret chat in the first place then it wouldn't be an issue. And so it's one extra click vs. starting a normal chat. I hope it hasn't inconvenienced you more than it's taken for all these replies.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

If you’re talking to 30 people, it’s 90 clicks. It might be 3 clicks if you know where to look, but end of the day, even if you know where to find it, that’s still that many clicks times how many people you chat with. It’s not ideal. I wouldn’t say it’s complicated sure, but it’s not easy.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago

If you’re talking to 30 people, it’s 90 clicks.

Uh, so? A "compose message" button is the approach many communication apps use, including e-mail. Don't get me started how many clicks it is to GPG-encrypt e-mails...

It’s not ideal.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself that I agree on that part. You act as I would disagree. I don't. It could be better but it's also not a complicated nightmare as the blog author makes it out to be.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

Right. But it’s also not exactly “easy” which is what you’re saying it is.

If easy was a sliding scale. Easy would be enabled by default. Hard would be making it obscure and hard to find. I would say it’s definitely closer to the harder to find side. But that’s just me. But 3 clicks, and having to switch chats and maybe delete the old one to avoid confusion, none of that is easy.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

Right. But it’s also not exactly “easy” which is what you’re saying it is.

I said it's as easy as tapping the compose button and selecting secret chat. I nowhere claimed that it's easier than that but it's also not more complicated than that.

[-] [email protected] -1 points 10 months ago

It’s 100% not just two clicks. You make it sound easier than it really is. But there’s no way for a new or infrequent user to know where it is unless they explore a bit or even knew to look for it. It’s hidden away behind a hamburger menu.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

You make it sound easier than it really is.

No, I gave a detailed tutorial how to initiate a secret chat and then explained that the procedure has to be done only once per contact. It's exactly as easy or complicated as I explained. Not more, not less.

It’s hidden away behind a hamburger menu.

No, it's not. Tap the pencil in the bottom right corner. That's how I explained it and that's how it's done. Hamburger menu is an additional way but the compose button is the pencil in the bottom right corner.

[-] [email protected] -1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Maybe it’s different on Android or Desktop/Web. On iOS it’s more than 2 clicks. And it’s tucked away. It would be surprising to me if the UI is that inconsistent across different platforms. But I can’t know for sure. So I will defer to the subject matter experts on Telegram.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

On iOS, you tap the profile, then tap “more”, then tap “start secret chat”. So depending on whether navigating to the profile counts, it’s also three taps. I agree it could be more direct, and should be included in the “New message” menu accessible from the pencil-on-paper icon in the top right of the main screen. I’ve used telegram on many platforms and the UI is in fact quite different. The iOS and android apps are totally different with different features, as are the Mac app, cross platform desktop app, and various web apps.

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this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2024
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