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xkcd #2948: Electric vs Gas (xkcd.com)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/xkcd@lemmy.world
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Alt text:

An idling gas engine may be annoyingly loud, but that's the price you pay for having WAY less torque available at a standstill.

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[–] 11 points 2 years ago (29 children)

It matters to people who drive more during the day than their range allows. They don't want to wait 20 minutes for the car to charge every time they venture 300km out and back /s

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  • [–] 13 points 2 years ago (10 children)

    Why do people still pretend it takes longer than 20 minutes to get a 50% charge increase?

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    Because it's currently easier to find a gas station than a charger that will do that performance. Now I'm willing to wait 8 hrs for 10%, but others certainly aren't.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    You must live in a red state or the middle of nowhere. It's easy to find chargers everywhere I've been.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Yes, my point. I have to charge my car at home because of charging stations are either far, or Tesla owners park in them to do shopping.

    Saying I live somewhere shit doesn't disprove my point that gas is more readily available.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    Wait, I'm confused (out of date??) I thought it took hours to charge. Has that changed?

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago

    1. I don't have enough charge for my trip. I'm also thirsty.

    2. I go to a grocery store with a fast charger.

    3. I buy a drink.

    4. I have enough charge.

    If it's a long trip where I need more charge, I choose a car snack, and I'll have enough.

    If I'm on an actual long car trip and I want to charge all the way from the warning light to 100%, I will need to eat a meal anyway. I just find a McDonald's/cafe,/restaurant/whatever with a fast charger, and it'll be full before I'm done.

    But finding a store/eating place with a fast charger is still waaaay less convenient than just finding a place where I can get diesel in seconds, and find a different place to get drinks/food/snacks.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (16 children)

    Why /s? Road trips are a thing, and you'd be hard pressed to find a combo restaurant/charging station that's along your path.

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  • [–] 13 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    restaurant/charging station combo

    The people providing the charging infrastructure here haven't figured out this important point yet. Gas stations are a terrible place to put chargers, no one wants to stop at a gas station for fifteen minutes to an hour at a time. Charging stations need to be in places people will be stopping anyway, or at the very least places that provide something to do while waiting. Restaurants, shopping centres, tourist traps, whatever.

    Here it's exacerbated by the fact that the fastest chargers we have only deliver about 60kW. Not even close to the 200+ some EVs need to get the fast charging times they advertise. But that 60kW would be perfectly fine if I could spend the time in a restaurant instead of standing around at a gas bar in the middle of nowhere.

    Hell, even cheap (or free) "level 2" chargers outside restaurants and shopping malls would be a huge help.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I live in Denmark, here the chargers are placed where people park anyway. Grocery stores, parking lots, rest stops...

    It's getting so easy to find a fast charger/resto combo, that we don't even plan it from home.

    I've seen few 200+ watts chargers without looking for them, but the car is ready faster than I am anyway.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago

    As it should be, and I agree that those crazy fast 200+ kW chargers are rarely necessary.

    It's kind of a weird reaction to consumer hesitation and people complaining that they don't want to wait for charge times as compared to the time it takes to fill a tank. Making charging as fast as possible to address the complaint (while still being one or two orders of magnitude slower at best), because that's easier than getting people to change their driving habits, or making them realise that they're always going to start the day with a full charge at home.

    Even if all you have is relatively paltry north american 110V at home you need to drive way more than average per day for that not to keep up.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago (10 children)

    Road trips are a tiny fraction of all vehicle use, it's fine to relegate them to specialty vehicles.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 years ago (9 children)

    Quick Google says a great majority of Americans take road trips. Even though it's a tiny fraction of their driving, it's still a deciding factor for many when choosing a car. Not all people have the luxury of affording a second car just for road trips.

    Public transportation would be good, but there's less flexibility to it. For example, just yesterday, on a return from a roadtrip, I got stomach sick and had to request frequent stops. That wouldn't fly on a train.

    I'd love it if we had affordable and flexible public transport for getting all across the country, though.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    I take road trips in my EV. It’s fine. You get to pee and walk the dog. The extra time isn’t much and it’s actually way more relaxing

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Unless you're taking road trips literally every other week you could just rent a gas vehicle when it's time for a road trip. Rather than make the decision of the car you're going to drive every single day based on something you only do maybe once a year.

    It's why I don't own a pickup truck, I actually do haul cars, help people move and all that shit that people say is why they need a pickup truck but I just go to fucking U-Haul and rent either the Sprinter van or the pickup truck for 30 bucks plus mileage when I need one. And I do actually keep track of my financial records with a double Ledger Finance app I just went and looked and I'm still nowhere near the cost of a used pickup truck from all of that renting

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (2 children)

    Take road trips how often? Once a year? Maybe twice?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    Yeah, but road trips can be expensive. Suppose you want to go from Harrisburg PA to Rockford IL with 2 adults and 1 teenager from November 15 to 22.

    • By car that's about 1500 miles. An average car gets 21 mpg, so that's about 71 gallons. Gas is around $3.5 per gallon, so the trip costs about $250 in gas. You'll need a hotel. I picked a random one in Ohio. $110 for the way up, $185 for the way back. I guess that's a Thanksgiving price hike. $545 total.
    • By train, let's say Amtrak because that came up first. $438 up, and that includes boarding a train at midnight and sleeping on the train, and then riding a bus from Chicago to Rockford for 2 hours. $483 back down, and this time when you sleep on the train you have to wake up by 5 AM to get off. Also this is coach class, and those seats aren't great for sleeping. At least you don't need a hotel. $921 total.
    • By plane, it's $650 round trip, simple as, but you have to leave at 6 AM on the way up and 5 AM on the way back. It can cost $200 more to get a more convenient time, but let's assume you're going for economy alone. $650 total.

    That's not accounting for food prices along the way. That could bring the car ride up to the same price as the plane if you don't pack food, but if you're spending extra on convenience there, you're probably willing to spend extra for convenience on the plane too.

    So it's probably safe to say that, for this group, the car saves about $100 per year, but helping to protect the environment is worth that price. On the other hand, there's something to be said for the flexibility and ease of planning on a car. For a bigger family, cars would be a way better option, and for a family without kids or a lone traveler, planes are the way better option. Trains are right out.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago

    I'd also add time to the comparison. Time isn't free, and if you spend 2 solid days driving, you might reconsider flying and renting a car at the destination even if it's more expensive. If you use an ev and have to take a few stops extra that might tip the scale.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago

    I’m so glad here in Germany they do that more often now. We have a quite a few large charging parks next to restaurants and bakeries. I just made a 9 hour trip to Denmark and it was a pretty nice experience overall. Only downside is you have to plan ahead if you want this convenience because the majority is still spots with 1-2 occupied chargers at some ugly, smelly Autobahn rest area.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    Although own an electric car, I believe range is still an issue. I was specifically addressing fuel density and charging time. EVs have their issues, but I believe they will be solved over time even though they are unlikely to beat an ICE in fuel density or charge rate for a long time. But I don't think those things are actually important, because the problem is solved in a different way.

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