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So this was me. (lemmygrad.ml)
submitted 3 years ago by to c/comradeship@lemmygrad.ml
126 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Honestly, MLs tend to do this with a lot of convos, I feel.

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[–] 15 points 3 years ago (34 children)

Might want to pick a better org.

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  • [–] [S] -1 points 3 years ago (33 children)

    Why?

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  • [–] 15 points 3 years ago* (32 children)

    The CPUSA leadership are corrupt, backwards, and completely out of touch with their reality as an organization and material reality in the United States.

    The only main pushes seem to be for empty electoralism for Democrat politics and never any other substantial effort. The leadership are completely unable to let go of the fact that it’s not the 1960’s-80’s anymore. They are also Pro-Khrushchev and believe in market economics.

    The party line is that they are literally opposed to a revolution. They are a liberal shill party that’s an empty shell of its former self, and the positions are extremely idealist and removed from material reality.

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  • [–] [S] -5 points 3 years ago (29 children)

    Actually, they are not corrupt or backwards. They are more realistic and in touch than most other orgs.

    We do not and never have endorsed Democrats as well.

    We are also anti-Khruschv.

    We are also not opposed to revolution.

    👍

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  • [–] 18 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (27 children)

    There is evidence to back up every single one of these claims? Why lie???

    One of the lines is literally "We have to defeat Trump by voting Hillary"

    https://www.cpusa.org/article/hillarys-hour/

    Leaders in the 50's/60's to the modern day continued to parrot Khrushchev "revelations" about Stalin.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/40403665.pdf

    Here they explicitly lay out that the movement will see victory against fascism and will lead the "Revolution", through electoral means, and that with the ballot box they can strike blows against the right wing.

    https://www.cpusa.org/article/defeating-the-rightwing-on-the-road-to-socialism/

    This is all beyond idealist and completely devoid of theory or Marxist policy.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 years ago (23 children)

    I mean yes both Dems and Republicans are capitalist imperialists who are never reformable and will forever be capitalist imperialists, however while the revolution hasn't happened yet it is important to vote Dems which takes barely any effort.

    Conservatives straight up are threatening the lives of minority groups and LGBTQ on an entirely different scale than democrats and life for me as a minority living in the US has gotten significantly worse since trump.

    It is idealistic to just not vote or vote for some 3rd party that never wins while real shit has been ramping up for people like me from the republican side (and yes I know Dems do it too and are also bigoted racists but again Republicans do it on a whole nother scale).

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  • [–] 8 points 3 years ago (8 children)

    Conservatives straight up are threatening the lives of minority groups and LGBTQ on an entirely different scale than democrats and life for me as a minority living in the US has gotten significantly worse since trump.

    Democrats have been in power in that time! Dems are complicit!

    What do they actually, materially, do? Do they just talk about protection without following through?

    It is idealistic to just not vote or vote for some 3rd party that never wins while real shit has been ramping up for people like me from the republican side (and yes I know Dems do it too and are also bigoted racists but again Republicans do it on a whole nother scale).

    Voting does not stop anything. It is not important.

    I'll still do it, some, but it doesn't stop what's coming for all of us.

    The Dems just want donations, they don't want to help anyone.

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  • [+] 5 points 3 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 6 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    I dig voting in local elections as "generally a good idea", I still do it.

    I just don't see voting on bourgeois elections as very important - substantial change is never on the table.

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  • [–] -3 points 3 years ago (3 children)

    They materially exist to at least slow down the more extreme racist and bigoted narratives and policies being pushed by Republicans. If democrats didn't exist and this nations as purely Republicans we would be seeing the LGBTQ community being thrown in camps already.

    Let's go with your theory that voting doesn't stop or alleviate any issues. Republican power has only been growing due to worsening conditions, and fascism is preferable to socialism in the eyes of the majority of the brainwashed reactionaries living here. We don't help vote cause "voting doesn't matter" and let Republicans win over and take every seat. The spineless dem will give in and join their side, and now we got a race of who can get more extreme right.

    By the way conservatives are much more likely to vote than disillusioned Democrats. And they will vote in droves for their fascist leaders.

    You already see this in republican circles already where they have really started sliding further right at an unprecedented scale. And just look at all the policies being passed in Florida, it is not looking good.

    Anyone who thinks worsening conditions will lead to a communist revolution over a fascist one is not paying attention to the reactionary preference for fascism in this nation.

    This does not bode well for marginalized communities. You may not give a shit but I do, as my own life has been severely negatively impacted ever since the trump presidency.

    The only people who would have no fear of a republican take over are straight and white.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    They materially exist to at least slow down the more extreme racist and bigoted narratives and policies being pushed by Republicans.

    Do they actually do this?

    If democrats didn't exist and this nations as purely Republicans we would be seeing the LGBTQ community being thrown in camps already.

    There are already people in camps in the U$. They are just not people you care about. Many of them were placed there under the aegis of Dem politicians.

    This does not bode well for marginalized communities. You may not give a shit but I do, as my own life has been severely negatively impacted ever since the trump presidency.

    There are already marginalized people in camps. You're just ok with that. The Trump presidency is over, and the bad things that are happening now are under a Dem president. The Dems do not materially ease the suffering.

    Amerikkka has always been as bad as 1940's fascism. Voting will never change that.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 years ago (12 children)

    If the left guarantees dems our votes then they will only move further right to get anti-trump right-wingers’ reluctant votes. They will only be pressured to not be as bad as republicans if we pressure them by not “voting blue no matter who.”

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  • [–] -4 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (11 children)

    That's purely speculation. I can also speculate that by letting Republicans win, the spineless Dems are just gonna join the winning side and swap over. Plenty have already done so or became libertarians who are just mini republicans. If popular support is on the side of the more extreme right then everyone moves further right. You can literally see this effect in CNN where they have increasingly worse narratives sliding towards the fascist right.

    By the way the same Republicans are portraying the LGBTQ community as associated with groomers and also happen to have the gun nuts on their side. At least democrats don't actively do that. Republicans have been sliding real fast towards an even more extreme right ever since the trump presidency.

    But sure both are equal and let's not vote and let Republicans win every seat. Definitely not gona have a worsening affect marginalized communities.

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  • [+] 8 points 3 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (10 children)
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  • [+] -7 points 3 years ago (9 children)

    Ok then vote republican next election. Since it doesn't matter.

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  • [+] 7 points 3 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (8 children)
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  • [+] -6 points 3 years ago (7 children)

    You literally refuse to backoff of the point that voting doesn't matter or that we shouldn't vote dem over republican so by all means vote republican.

    Since as you say in your argument it doesn't matter and that Dems are just as bad. Explain to me how it matters based on your arguments so far.

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  • [+] 6 points 3 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (6 children)
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  • [–] -5 points 3 years ago (5 children)

    Does voting matter or not? Does voting dem over Republicans matter or not? You keep on writing essays on how bad democrats are and yes they are as I said imperialists still and I never supported voting communism into office and only revolutions can achieve it. But all I am saying is that in the mean time, taking 10min to vote dem over Republicans will at best alleviate worse situations or at worse as you say do nothing so why not do it?

    What exactly are you trying to argue for?

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  • [+] 7 points 3 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)
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  • [+] -6 points 3 years ago (3 children)

    You fundamentally believe Republicans in office in the future is exactly the same as democrats in the office so there is nothing more for us to discuss.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 years ago* (1 child)

    My personal position is that voting matters so little that is pointless to argue about it. Maybe it’s useful in some situations, but I don’t see why anyone should vote for Biden again. Either way, the minimal impact of voting means you need to be doing praxis in more meaningful ways too. Vote or don’t, there’s no point to convince someone not to if you believe it has little effect. Both parties are so evil why pick a lesser one? Just please don’t wast your time campaigning or donating to Joe Biden.

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