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what does degrowth look like? (hexbear.net)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/askchapo@hexbear.net
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as an aside in the latest Trillbillies episode Terrence said that we need degrowth communism and it got me wondering what that means to everyone. to hopefully stifle any silly debates i'll clarify that i'm talking about the West, not underdeveloped/overexploited nations in the Global South.

an end to oil drilling, gas extraction, and coal mining will obviously be necessary to stop climate change. how much modern technology can we replicate without relying on those things or other ecologically violent resource extraction? what does an agriculture system that doesn't rely on petrochem-derived fertilizers and herbicides look like? how do we repair the immense damage that's already been done?

i'd really appreciate some book recommendations on this topic as well as everyone's thoughts

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[–] 21 points 2 years ago (1 child)

if you think about how much of the economy in the imperial core is bullshit degrowth becomes much easier to imagine.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    Are you talking about email jobs? Because those don't produce much carbon when done at home

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  • [–] 13 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    scammers, speculators, rentiers, consultants, crypto, ai, marketing, propagandists, surveillance, weapons development... i feel like we could go on for an hour

    ooth 'email jobs' just describe an environment work takes place in, some people in cubicle email jobs are involved in pro-social work, i assume.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    My concern is that this kind of labor doesn't generate huge carbon emissions (sans ML, weapons, and commutes) and the majority of jobs that need to go are industrialized or logistics jobs that are critical. I didn't think getting rid of marketing would save much carbon.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago

    on the contrary, liquidating marketers would net the largest decrease in hot air ever seen garf-troll

    emissions are half the equation tho, GDP counts these things and decoupling the idea GDP & the per capita to actual living standards is important for a degrowth conversation. no humans would hurt from the billions lost in 'value' in marketing

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  • [+] 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)
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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    Yeah so how do you deindustrialize those without too much harm? The vast majority of socialism in practice has involved mass industrialization to benefit the working class so how do you keep the benefits without the industry in countries like China?

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  • [+] 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)
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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    That's my concern. Industry, even when electricity is clean, generates a ton of carbon.

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  • [+] 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)
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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    But they also don't produce rail, solar panels, food, housing, or clean water. They're completely bullshit jobs that exist to keep the proletariat from having the time and energy to revolt.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    You're average marketer probably isn't fit to start building train tracks. Most people in white collar jobs would be unwilling to do blue collar labor and construction of all of those goods is incredibly expensive and emissions producing. A very large portion of Marxist thought is about industrialization and has been applied to China and the USSR, but when deindustrialization is needed the road is less clear.

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