submitted 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) by to c/showerthoughts@lemmy.world
 

Edit: Today I learned that UTC is an actual real thing and not just a setting I scroll past on my computer 😅.


They also complicate things.

It made more sense back before we had electric lighting and when everyone lived by the rising and setting of the sun. Now it doesn't seem to really matter.

Obviously, the whole world deciding where to start the time would be nigh impossible but it could be like: starting at this date, on the first day of the year, what ever point is farthest away from the sun is 00:00 from henceforth.

And then people just adapted to what that meant for their particular area. Somebody's morning might be 13:00!

Imagine if the whole world was on some global time schedule.

Edit: From my comment below

Look at the earth from a top down perspective. It's a pie. With 12 or 24 slices depending on the granularity. A clock, basically. It would take the same amount of energy to learn which slice of earth is lined up towards the sun for each hour as would be to learn anything else in elementary school.

After which, for the rest of your life you'd have an intuitive grasp of where earth is in its rotation and what "time" it would be for any place in the world.

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[–] 40 points 2 days ago (5 children)

And now instead of need to know what time is it in California and Germany to schedule a meeting you need to know at what time people usually work in both places, because I'm pretty sure no one with an office job will be working in California at 11:00 UTC. At least now I know that if I schedule something I can just look at a single offset number to pick something that works for both sides. My real bane is DST and DST changing at different dates depending on the country.

So what problem would it solve?

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  • [–] [S] 9 points 2 days ago (3 children)

    Regardless of what time system is used, you'd still have to know the overlapping wake time of each party. It's the same problem to be solved but viewed from a familiar point of reference vs a new point of reference.

    And, it doesn't really solve anything that time zones didn't, with the exception that using UTC standardizes everything on global time. Not that that has any practical value either.

    Just an interesting thought experiment. Sure does feel like I kicked the hornets nest tho. 😅

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  • [–] 6 points 2 days ago

    you’d still have to know the overlapping wake time of each party.

    That's why most of the business world is generally 8am - 6pm. Just pull up a Munich to Sao Paulo clock comparison and pick a time both of you are chained to your desks. Only the military can really operate on Zulu time because, fuck when you want to sleep, this is when it's going down.

    I don't need to know when the Paris office is going to be awake, schedule it for 10am local.

    I used to need to coordinate between +9, -10, -5, and +3... Guess who had a lot of midnight meetings.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

    It's still easier to search "California time" see it's 7:18, and that if I try to call someone now I will not get an happy person on the other side, than it is to search "at what UTC time do californians usually start working".

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  • [–] 6 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    In the U.S. timezones were developed by the railroads before being written into law to keep the train traffic moving. I think they even called it railroad time. Back in the day when the big clock in town meant something ... Imagine everyone setting 12:00 (noon) or 'high noon' with the sun directly overhead! There was no standard time nor timezones before we began traveling faster than the sun.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 days ago (12 children)

    We have that. It's called UTC.

    The problem is that time zones are convenient for most people. Most of the time you are only interested in local time, not global time. It's rare to regularly have to coordinate across multiple time zones.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 2 days ago* (1 child)

    Sure, but it only seems convenient because that's how people have been used to thinking about things. What does it really matter if someone's day starts at 7 am, and in a different area it starts at 12? The 12 o'clocker's day would revolve around different numbers but ultimately would feel normal to them.

    I'm not saying we should abolish time zones, only that as a thought experiment they are largely holdovers from a different time when viewed now in light of the globalization we have today.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 days ago

    As someone who travels quite a bit, that would be hellish.

    It provides a consistent reference for information sharing. E.g. you move to a new area of the world. Assuming a 9-5 work time is a reasonable baseline. Assuming a kids bedtime is 8pm is also reasonable, etc. Without timezones, you would have to relearn all of those.

    You would also be required to memorise those details for friends and relatives who live abroad. E.g. if a friend moved from the UK to new Zealand, you just need to memorise the time offset. That way it becomes easier to catch them before work, or before bed, rather than in the middle of work, or while they are asleep.

    Ultimately, both in parallel is likely the best option. Local time for local events, UTC for global level events or referencing.

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    [–] 6 points 2 days ago

    So I agree. like you would know its 1am in another place when it was 1am for you. Thing is you would have no recollection of what was a reasonable hour for outher places. when you go see what the local time is in a place for your time you know if its a reasonable or unreasonable hour by where the sun will be there. Everyone knows 1am is an ungodly hour.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 days ago (1 child)
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    [–] 9 points 2 days ago (5 children)

    It’s interesting that we do this with time, but not with months. Summer months being December to February in the Southern Hemisphere never made the top of the list for problems to solve.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    Why? What's a "Summer month" other than some euro-centric bullshit?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago

    Months have less variation. In the north, it's "traditional", in the south, it's inverted, in the middle, it's climatic (tied to monsoons etc). The northern hemisphere has been dominant in recorded history for a LONG time, so sets the reference. The inverted mapping is nice and clean to remember. While the tropics have no clean mapping.

    The traditional calendar won because we need a consistent global reference, and a local reference wasn't worth the hassle.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 days ago (7 children)

    You are right. I'm not sure why everyone refuses to let the sun rise at 3pm. It doesn't care. But I guess that's probably how the general population would react to your idea. They really just can't change.

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    [–] 6 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    The downvotes are hilarious. You really struck a nerve.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 days ago

    First off, that already exists with UTC.

    Secondly, there is zero chance of getting the entire world to agree to stop using time zones at the same time. At best, it would complicate things even further by having some countries using time zones while others don’t.

    Time zones provide helpful frames of reference. With few exceptions, 8am-6pm is roughly a standard day nearly everywhere. It is where most of the daylight occurs, when most people are working, when most businesses are open, etc. If you are traveling somewhere and have an appointment at 22:00, how do you figure out if that is in the morning or afternoon? What time would I make a dinner reservation for? When should I plan on sleeping?

    What happens to Daylight Saving Time? I assume you would want that to go away as well? That brings up its own problems which is why DST is still a thing even though many people say they don’t want it.

    It would likely end up with individual states and even cities creating their own “standard” work days, so instead of time zone covering an entire region, there would be a complicated patchwork of unofficial mini time zones.

    If you travel far North during the Summer or Winter when the sun is either almost always up or down, how do you know when morning and night are? Do you have to look up the work schedule of local businesses?

    Would it be possible to stop using time zones? Yes. Would it completely change the way most of the world has handled scheduling for multiple generations? Also yes. Would it even be beneficial in the first place? That is at best, debatable.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 days ago

    Those offices with clocks on the wall with all the different times of capital cities in other countries would be rather dull

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

    when everyone lived by the rising and setting of the sun.

    That's timezones. Flowing instead of bordered, and they used terms like morning, noon and evening instead of numbers, but still.

    Your post reminds me of this hippie who once told me they don't like daylight saving times because it feels "unnatural" to them. Dude, all clock time is unnatural. Human made. They didn't understand.

    Entertaining your preposterous proposal: every time you post something on the internet that is time specific, you'd now have to explain that in your neck of the globe, 23:00 means early morning. Your work starts at midnight, pardon, 00:00.

    I find timezones significantly more convenient.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    So you're fine with midnight being sunny?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (3 children)

    Imagine if the whole world was on some global time schedule.

    UTC.

    What's the fascination with this topic? Time zones are a major accomplishment because they allow us to schedule things further than our city limits. A train schedule leaving London and going to Paris, Cologne, Berlin, Warsaw, Kiev, Moscow, Yekaterinburg, Novosibirsk, etc. would be difficult to plan without them. Even this new time, let's call it BST, still needs time zones. Adjacent places need to agree on a common time. So we have accomplished nothing other than people having to learn their new 7am is 16:00. Which is counterintuitive.

    The only country that clearly doesn't give a shit about time zones is PR China. And the only reason why you haven't heard many people thousands of miles west of Beijing having to live on Beijing time complain is the fact that it's the more sparsely populated areas, the more troubled, and the fact that criticising a decision by the communist party carries the danger of being sent to a reeducation camp even if you're neither a Uyghur nor a Tibetan.

    Abolish DST and the few half hour zones and UTC will be just fine.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    A train schedule leaving London and going to Paris, Cologne, Berlin, Warsaw, Kiev, Moscow, Yekaterinburg, Novosibirsk, etc. would be difficult to plan without [time zones]

    I don't see that. If you know it takes the train 90 minutes to go between London and Paris, another 2 hours to Berlin, and a further 3 hours to Moscow, what difference does the presence or absence of time zones make in terms of scheduling that service?

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