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[–] 18 points 2 hours ago (16 children)

Linus going beastmmode

"

Linus Torvalds responded with an emphatic rejection of tool usage declarations.

He wrote:

What you are about is something entirely different. It has nothing to do with "expectations", and it has everything to do with your hangups.

I don't understand this whole idiotic concept of "don't use AI for X".

Here's a new rule just for you: don't use compilers for any of your kernel submissions.

Because if you can't show that you really understand what the machine is actually doing by writing your code in assembler, then I don't want to see your code contribution. You clearly aren't competent if you can't write it that way.

And btw, you had better not use an editor to write that commit message either.

Because I need you to show me that you can actually write a good commit message without using tools that make it easy to backspace and hide the mistakes you made while typing.

Ok?

Because otherwise those tool-assisted commits of yours clearly aren't showing that you know what you are doing.

Do you not see how UTTERLY STUPID those kinds of rules would be?

So no. We're not going to make stupid rules that say "you can't use tools for X".

The kind of expectations I have is that people do their best and I expect people to understand what they are doing.

But that understanding has very little to do with what tools they use.

And quite honestly, in my experience, the people I respect and call intelligent are not the ones that shy away from using new and interesting tools. ®

"

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  • [–] 2 points 1 hour ago (3 children)

    Wow, that's an incredibly stupid take. Like, the kind that you generally expect from brainwashed dumbasses that don't even know what is the difference between a screen and a computer.

    That's scary that people would listen to a guy that completely lost his understanding of reality.

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  • [–] 4 points 50 minutes ago (2 children)

    "Everyone who disagrees with me is stupid" - your brain on idealism

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  • [–] 5 points 47 minutes ago (1 child)

    "Everyone who disagrees with me is stupid" - your brain on slop machines

    Like that's Linus's entire point. "I'm smart, you're dumb. Fall in line". Not great

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  • [–] [S] -1 points 11 minutes ago

    Nah, Linus's entire point is that LLMs are just a tool people use to build things, and drawing some arbitrary line between the tools you're used to and ones you're not is idiotic.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 hour ago (8 children)

    That's not really beast mode. That's a guy with a god complex not understanding the problem after refusing to acknowledge he's not the only one who cares about Linux for the past twenty years.

    the people I respect and call intelligent are not the ones that shy away from using new and interesting tools.

    You know who else isn't shying away from the new tools? Trump and his cronies. Like this argument means literally nothing. People like Peter Thiel have said they want the world to end, these are the lines of people not shying away from the tools that Torvalds is aligning himself with.

    Dude needs to fuck off and stop being a single point of failure.

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  • [–] 3 points 27 minutes ago (2 children)

    You know who else isn’t shying away from the new tools? Trump and his cronies.

    Hard to think of a poorer argument against AI use.

    In line with the rest of the comments here so far where there's lots of anti AI rage but little to no coherent arguments that specify how Linus using AI to code is a bad thing. No specifics, lots of vague beating around the bush, highly emotive language.

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  • [–] 0 points 20 minutes ago (1 child)

    My point wasn't to lay out every argument against using LLMs. That's been done ad nauseum elsewhere (not this comment thread no but other communities).

    My point was his supposed beast mode was a poor argument for them by pointing out the exact same argument works both ways. Both smart people and dumb people are using them.

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  • [–] 1 point 15 minutes ago

    And quite honestly, in my experience, the people I respect and call intelligent are not the ones that shy away from using new and interesting tools.

    (But) Both smart people and dumb people are using them

    This is not the gotcha you seem to think it is...

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  • [–] 2 points 39 minutes ago (2 children)

    What the fuck are you on about? There is so much myopia here from you it's not even funny. These tools are not going to go away. This is like saying Peter Thiel uses Javascript

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  • [–] 0 points 35 minutes ago (1 child)

    If you think I'm arguing here that they're gonna go away then please, please, please, go take a reading comprehension class.

    I'm arguing Linus's point that smart people use LLMs is a piss take that shows zero understanding of the world around him. That's it.

    I just also happen to wish LLMs would go away for moral and ecological reasons.

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  • [–] 1 point 29 minutes ago*

    I'm arguing Linus's point that smart people use LLMs is a piss take that shows zero understanding of the world around him. That's it.

    That itself is a piss take from you. What projects have you used LLM's in for code assist activities (and I'm not talking vibecode slop)?

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  • [–] 6 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 39 minutes ago) (1 child)

    The open source software movement was very much founded on the idea of being concerned about what kinds of tools we use as a society. Software that's "just a tool" can lock you down and out of what you can do with it. Same argument can just as well be made that people were "shying away from using new and interesting tools" by running free software instead of Microsoft's new priority stuff that locks you in

    AI similarly gives massive control to a handful of companies. They have already used that leverage to intentionally sandbag tasks without telling you, when they think it's against their economic interests (model distillation and AI research). Is it not possible to imagine that goes further, they would use that leverage to slip in backdoor, not report classes of bugs, etc.?

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 6 minutes ago

    Do explain how open models like Qwen that you can run locally give massive control to handful of companies. In fact, what seems obvious is that using and improving these models is precisely what takes control away from these companies. People who started the free software movement didn't cry like a bunch children about how much they hated software. They had the brains to understand the problem wasn't the software itself, but rather who controls it. So, they went out and built open versions of the software that weren't corporate owned. And try guess what tools they used initially to do that since open software didn't exist yet. Your mind is about to be blown.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 hours ago (11 children)

    Fuck.

    Let’s hope for a slop-free fork or the old man changing his mind on this bullshit.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 1 hour ago (8 children)

    or maybe just time to grow up

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  • [–] 2 points 1 hour ago (5 children)

    "Grow up, join the sect. If not you'll be left out when we all become AI-augmented and fly to Mars"

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  • [–] -1 points 1 hour ago (3 children)

    join the sect says the person who's against a glorified calculator?

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  • [–] 3 points 31 minutes ago (2 children)

    My calculator has 100% accuracy, always, it's never wrong. If AI were like that it'd be great.

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  • [–] 3 points 27 minutes ago

    And calculators can't be tweaked to subtly change messaging to push a narrative, or a product, or whatever.

    Calculators didn't steal the work of all humanity to try to put them out of a job.

    Calculators don't really get used for scams by cloning people's voices.

    Could go on and on how calculators and LLMs are different.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 hour ago* (1 child)

    This is the kind of arguments people made against the free-software movement in the first place. That it's somehow more mature to not care about consequences of what we do and how we do it

    I think it's exactly the other way around

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 16 minutes ago*

    The difference is that free-software movement is about rolling up your sleeves and actually making alternatives as opposed to throwing a tantrum like spoiled children which is what you all are. You lot are just a modern day iteration of Luddites who were raging against the technology as opposed to social relations that resulted in the technology being used in abusive ways. And lacking basic understanding of the problem you are doomed to fail the same way as your predecessors.

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