what it says on the title, we just violate and parasitize humanity and i don't even know if we should be kept around if a global revolution actually happens

i honestly feel like our only use right now is sheer body count and to be harvested for resources in a post-rev world, the latter being punishment for what we've done to the world

am i correct or just pessimistic? forgive me if my thoughts come off as off-putting but my frustrations toward my species leaves me wanting the global south to have a proper form of revenge

all 20 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 21 points 4 days ago

self-flagellation helps no-one, join with anti-imperialist comrades and do what you can


  • source
  • [–] 16 points 4 days ago* (1 child)

    "In the final analysis, the economic development of the United States and the need of its workers to maintain their standard of living means that our struggle for national liberation is not waged against a given social regime, but rather against the whole nation... Let us prepare, then, to fight against the entire people of the United States, for the fruit of victory will be not only economic liberation and social equality, but the acquisition of a new and very welcome younger brother: the proletariat of that country." - Che Guevara

    You are correct in your analysis that the West is parasitic, and that its people are complicit, but it is ridiculously hyperbolic to say that westerners "shouldn't be kept around" after the revolution. Is this pessimistic exaggeration or are you seriously proposing we commit a mass genocide against the West? It's ridiculous.

    We are not guilty of the sins of our fathers and grandfathers. We did not choose to be born in the West. I god damn well know I did not choose to be born in this fucking hellscape we call Florida. The people of the West are a product of their material conditions. No matter how caustic, twisted, and vile their opinions may be—you change the conditions and you change the rules of engagement for the Western people.

    There will come a time in the future where even the treatlerite Westerners will give up their treats—or rather, lose access to their treats—and become properly proletarianized. There will be a day in the future where, over the ashes of the United States of America, and of the European Union, and of every hegemonic imperialist to ever exist, a new people will be born—a Western people forged and tempered in an era of scientific socialism instead of bathed in endless YouTube videos, plastic toys, porn, and addictive poisons they call foods. A Western people willing to take part in the emancipation of the international proletariat, and willing to move the wheel of history forward yet another revolution. No matter how impossible it may seem today, this will happen. Some day.

    Socialism will win.

    In the meantime, downtrodden Western comrade, we must struggle on! We struggle from within the belly of the beast! Perhaps the most significant of all struggles! The struggle is here, at our very doorstep! We must take every opportunity we can—we must allow this struggle to consume us! For every sin that this empire has committed—for every sin that this empire has forced us to commit—we must strike back a thousand fold! It is we who will make the change here, and it is only we who can end this empire of evil.

    The way I see it, us western Marxist-Leninists have three choices:

    1. Despair. Give up. Be complacent. Make deranged claims like those you made right here, in this post. Ideate and fetishize your ineptitude and allow yourself to succumb to the empire. Simply await whatever may happen to you, and hope the third world comes to save you.

    2. Hope. Struggle. Fight on right here, right now. Organize your community and play your part in breaking the back of colonialism.

    3. If you really cannot take it, and you have the means. If your spirit is broken and the dangers crush you from within, then do this. Learn every skill this empire can give you. Take its knowledge, its investment, and its training, and then pick up and move before you allow this economy to recoup its investment in you. Move to China, Vietnam, Laos, hell, even Russia or Iran. Wherever you can go. Take part in building up the axis of resistance, in defending the third world from the West. Depending on where you go, you may even help in building socialism across the seas. Fight back against the empire from outside of it.

    Steel yourself, comrade. We have a world to win.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 8 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    What a beatiful and inspiring comment! Saved, I will re-read it when my resolve falters.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 8 points 3 days ago

    Thank you for the compliment, comrade! It is in times like these that we all must remind ourselves of what is at stake, and be able to hold ourselves together in times of great strife. A principled communist should never know despair.

    May your resolve never falter, and if it were to, may it return to you a thousand times stronger than when it left!

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 12 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    What you're doing is taking the western mindset, a mindset that is typically used to justify genocidal/oppressive action against other countries, and pointing it inward toward the imperial core population. This (can be) a dangerous mistake in thinking if translated to organized action, as it'd make you more aligned with internal fascists forces who use various narratives to justify abusing and oppressing the internal imperial core people.

    1. Liberation is not about revenge: Although liberation is far from a "peaceful protest" and it may be that some revenge-like action will happen in the short-term during a given revolution's struggle for power, a desire for revenge is at best a fuel to take action. It is not in itself a revolutionary strategy and it is deeply impractical to think primarily in terms of getting revenge. The primary strategic question for the oppressed masses, externally from the empire, or internally, is the question of power; who controls it, what they can do with it logistically, what they enact with it in policy, and whose interests it serves. Revenge alone does not answer any of these questions.

    2. Wearing a hair shirt won't free imperialized peoples: When an imperial core person is like, "Ugh, we're such parasites", what does that offer to a place like Venezuela in solidarity? When Cubans are being starved, can they feed on the guilt of westerners who are coming to terms with their sordid legacy? It is good to become aware and to do something with that awareness, but it doesn't help the oppressed masses of the world if that awareness becomes only self-flagellation. Imperialized peoples can gain something from people within the imperial core pushing back against the imperial system. They can gain something from those same people offering them material aid where possible. They don't get anything from the imperial core westerner who actually recognizes the atrocities of the empire to wallow in guilt and crave punishment instead of trying to dismantle the empire. If you want to see yourself as making amends, then work toward a world free of the empire's hold. Which circles back to the strategic questions outlined in point 1.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] [S] -5 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    why not both though? if a westoid can try to dismantle the imperial core then we can also have the understanding to view ourselves as below humanity, that way the global south is helped while we understand our place in the world

    i apologize if i come off as rude, i'm genuinely curious as to why properly loathing one's existence as the entity is used to dissolve imperialism seems to be disliked

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 8 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    the understanding to view ourselves as below humanity

    Dehumanizing yourself doesn't help other peoples who are being dehumanized. Again, this is trying to mimic the conditions of the oppressed to assuage guilt, not helping them live in better conditions.

    The west has a real problem with thinking itself special/uniquely talented/uniquely important/etc. Basically a huge ego problem on a system level as a side effect of the west being positioned as "better than" and its targets as "less than" in order to justify the exploitation and the killing and so on. Dismantling that does not mean reversing the polarity. For the westerner side of things, it means dismantling the systems of exploitation and coming back down to Earth; and yes, that includes when thinking of yourself as uniquely "evil" and needing punishment by association.

    If you, personally, have committed terrible crimes, you should try to make amends for those crimes, especially with the people those crimes most directly impacted. If you think you're to blame by association for every crime the empire has committed because it happens to be where you were born, you're still thinking with the western ego. But you don't need to shoulder the blame for things out of your control in order to want to liberate oppressed peoples and to take action towards that goal.

    i apologize if i come off as rude, i’m genuinely curious as to why properly loathing one’s existence as the entity is used to dissolve imperialism seems to be disliked

    I don't see it as rude, I'm just telling you, it is not a helpful or healthy train of thought. Let me put it this way: If you think loathing the empire as an entity is inseparable from loathing yourself, that shows how much you still identify with the empire as a part of you. But why would you? Are you working for its military or something? Do you feel kinship with committing genocide? What is it about the imperial practices that you still feel connected to? Identify those and unlearn them. Learn from the east, from Socialist China and others like them. Learn from those who have succeeded in liberation. It's a good anti-ego exercise to learn from the very sort of people who the west normally condemns as lesser and they have a lot they do well that the west as a whole ignores, or refuses to learn from, due to its insistence they are "savages".

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] [S] -1 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    the terrible crime is being born in the core and existing, i fear

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 10 points 3 days ago

    And I'm telling you, that's how imperialists think when they want to justify their murderous policies; this is embedded in what the intelligentsia reproduces as cultural thought, from hundreds of years of colonialism, some of which developed into global imperialism. You're taking that lens and turning it inward, toward the imperial core.

    You're far from the first to do this and you won't be the last. Because changing loyalties doesn't instantly change your paradigm. But the good news is, it is possible to change your paradigm over time.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 11 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    yeah imma say you're being a little pessimistic... everyone goes thru a quick third worldist phase

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] [S] 3 points 4 days ago* (1 child)

    but given our parasitic relationship to the global south wouldn't we technically be enemies to the movement? or at least major hindrances, even if the west were to become socialist as well it'd still be stealing from the global south to my understanding

    to me it feels morally incorrect to see us as working class because we benefit from exploiting humans

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 10 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    Western society will need to go through an adjustment period where it suddenly cannot trade for goods with managerial services anymore. This will make most things very expensive in the West and it will force the Western colonies to simultaneously abandon many settlements while also developing more extractive industry. The extractive industry ramp up in the colonies will result in violent conflict with the indigenous folks and there will need to be international intervention to prevent genocides. All of this will result in a shrinking of the colonies, resulting in a concentrating of the colonists in less space, which will proletarianize them further as they need to build productive forces to meet their needs, which will turn them into productive members of the global proletariat and establish them as equal trading partners, eventually.

    It's going to take time. The colonies of the West will go through the worst adjustments. But Western Europe will also have to adjust as well, and they will more easily proletarianize and overthrow their legacy royalties and aristocracies in order to lessen the burden.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] [S] -4 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    but wouldn't that leave us unpunished for our parasitic acts towards the global south? even if we did proletarianize we still act as parasites, our history can't be changed and needs to be addressed before we can be allowed into socialist civilization, if at all

    like you said, the animal gets violent when cornered and that's how all of us are innately, it's just part of being westoid and that innate violence is what concerns me

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 10 points 4 days ago

    but wouldn’t that leave us unpunished for our parasitic acts towards the global south?

    You're thinking in moralistic terms. Punishment is only useful insofar as it produces sustainable material conditions. Most of the terrible violent sociopaths in the West will be punished by their own working classes when they rise up.

    even if we did proletarianize we still act as parasites

    You need to understand this from a material perspective. How do we act as parasites? It's not an individual choice. It's a relationship. The mechanism is called Unequal Exchange. When that mechanism breaks down, it will result in the costs of commodities increasing for the West, which will fundamentally change how they survive, which will, of necessity, drive us from parasitic to symbiotic over time.

    our history can’t be changed

    No history can ever be changed. And everyone in the world has histories of deeds that cause harm. So anything that starts with "we would have to be able to change our history" is not a real position.

    our history needs to be addressed before we can be allowed into socialist civilization, if at all

    No, that's also impossible. Reparations can only be made through the socialist process. Remember, everything is a historical process. The West and Socialist Civilization are not billiard balls that bump into each. The West and Socialist Civilization are two (of many) sub-processes of Human Society which is a sub-process of The Human Species which is a sub-process of Life On Earth, etc. There's no such thing as "allowing the West into socialist civilization". The processes that cause distinction between the Oppressor and the Oppressed gets resolved dialectically, that is to say with the oppressor and oppressed acting on each other and on themselves and on their context and resolving the contradiction, ending the historical process of distinction and simultaneously returning to the higher order process as a unity (human society) AND advancing to a new historical process (global cooperation).

    like you said, the animal gets violent when cornered and that’s how all of us are innately, it’s just part of being westoid and that innate violence is what concerns me

    Yes, the West will lash out. It's currently lashing out. Yes, there will be reactionaries, we've known this for a long time. Yes, the reactionaries will intensify their resistance, we learned this with the USSR. Yes the reactionaries will win some victories. But, reaction is ultimately unsustainable violent resistance in support of maintenance of violent subjugation is an internally contradictory process and it will ultimately cause its own undoing. Yes, it's concerning, because the violence of the reactionaries will be brutal, devastating, pernicious, and morally revolting. But, that's all the more reason why globally we need people, like you, who are aware of these things and are able to apply a level of reflection, self-control, and empathy to support the movement for global cooperation against those that would rather destroy us all.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 8 points 4 days ago

    Find the best ML organization where you're at and put your all into it, beating yourself for being a member of the imperial core leading you into complacency is a waste of time. The imperialist nations need those within willing to struggle to fight against their machine inside, and to be prepared when the imperial apparatus devolves and revolution becomes possible

  • source
  • [–] 6 points 3 days ago*

    Eh, what are you gonna do? You are overthinking it, comrade. Just try your best. It's okay to not be perfect and that the world isn't perfect. As long as you try to do what you can to make it better you are doing great. You are not a God, are you? So why do you insist on taking the sins if the world on your shoulders?

    And how can you be useful? Comrade, the fact that the imperial core are imperialist parasite states only means that anti-imperialist work is more important! A successful anti-imperialist movement in your country could help prevent it from entering an imperialist war. It could change some of it's imperialist policies. The movement could help develop the productive forces of exploited nations. A strong proletarian movement with even a little internationalism could prevent a slide into more reactionary and violent social or haute bourgeois fascism, and ensure a tough but comfortable imperial decline for you, your loved ones, and vulnerable minorities in your country.

    Ultimately, you are making the world system of imperialism about yourself. You are taking an economic and political fact, and using it to justify running with an emotional impulse. It is of course understandable to be distraught about the imperial lifestyle, it is in fact good to recognize the inherent parasitism! What is not good is reacting so strongly to it that it debilitates you politically. I think it is ultimately a form of liberalism to react in such a personal way, and would recommend you have a look at Combat Liberalism by Mao.

  • source
  • [–] 6 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    yes, you can send me 10 bucks and you'll be helping fight imperialism in argentina. /s

    on a serious note, someone needs to kill the fascists in the us so yes you can be helpful. don't torture yourself.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] [S] 2 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    and if the westoid is too cowardly to kill the fascist it sees in the mirror and its head? /gen

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 3 days ago

    Arming yourself for self-defense is good. Learn first-aid, medical skills, trauma-response and be the best possible field medic you can be. There is plenty of roles for those who do not pull the trigger.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 6 points 4 days ago

    If you're from turtle island, just please try to control your neighbours. Shit is bad here.

  • source