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submitted 19 hours ago by foofiepie@lemmy.world to c/linux@lemmy.world

Tried for half the weekend to get elementary to work, it just refused to install for reasons unknown.

Gone with Mint for now.

I like the hardware (an old Intel MacBook Air) and didn’t want it to go to waste.

I’ll see how I get on with this desktop. Went feet first straight to bare metal because I couldn’t be bothered with dual boot. It was too much faff. Would value any insight from others who’ve found a lovely distro/DE combo with these tiny machines.

Making my first moves away from proprietary software. Thanks largely to being inspired by you delightful folk.

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[-] IncogCyberSpaceUser@piefed.social 1 points 3 hours ago

Is there no desktop environment? Or is this a terminal window maximized full screen with a planet wallpaper?

[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 2 points 7 hours ago

Btw, is there a TUI start menu like tool, with favorites and so on?

Or even better, a whole status bar at the top/bottom, with time, battery, maybe even launched background processes listed you can bring to front?

No reason that we can't have some Desktop metaphor niceties on shell too, no?

[-] foofiepie@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago

I wouldn’t know how to do that tbh. I have merely the laptop, a copy of ‘The Linux Command Line’ and an internet connection and was going to see if I could figure it out. See how intuitive it is.

[-] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 5 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

Welcome to the club!

Quick question, tho: in what way is it 'mini'?

[-] foofiepie@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago

It’s such a small laptop. 11”, 16:9. Seems perfect for travel, thin, light, and relatively user serviceable if the battery dies.

[-] foofiepie@lemmy.world 15 points 19 hours ago

Oh also, I do not own any tights. I can ‘borrow’ my wife’s if it’s the law or something.

[-] e0qdk@reddthat.com 11 points 19 hours ago

They're probably referring to the !unixsocks@lemmy.blahaj.zone community/meme.

I've been a linux user just shy of 30years (slackware ftw) and terminally online since before that (anyone still know what a BBS is ?) and I have never heard of this.

You lot are weird lol.

[-] foofiepie@lemmy.world 7 points 19 hours ago

Ah yes that’s it.

[-] foofiepie@lemmy.world 7 points 19 hours ago

Is it leggings then. I’ve seen people do this with soft toys and a spectacular range of stripy tights/leggings. Perhaps in another community. 😂

[-] WorkingPie@feddit.online 6 points 19 hours ago

Usually, its thigh high socks but we'll accept tights or leggings as well. Also yes, it is the law.

[-] foofiepie@lemmy.world 3 points 19 hours ago

I shall leave it to the court of public opinion.

[-] yaroto98@lemmy.world 6 points 19 hours ago

I think that's arch linux, not mint. But if you're interested in continuing down this path, you may need to soon.

[-] foofiepie@lemmy.world 3 points 19 hours ago

In my limited understanding (beyond the ‘Arch btw’ memes), Arch is an OS that’s quite fully featured, suited to veteran/power users, because it has regular updates/highly mutable. It has its own repo too by the looks of it?

Is that correct?

[-] throwaway403@programming.dev 10 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

Arch is an OS that’s quite fully featured

Not entirely sure what you mean with that.

suited to veteran/power users

The gist is that Arch pretty much comes with little to no defaults. So, you are literally put into the position to make all the important decisions. Which, as you might have imagined already, basically requires you to be pretty knowledgeable on Linux in the first place. Thus making it mostly unsuitable for new users. Though, I won't dismiss a special breed of newb that somehow manages to rawdog it quite 'successfully'.

because it has regular updates

We refer to its release cycle as rolling release. Which basically alludes to the absence of a point release.

The version of Linux Mint you were on is 21.2 and you'll soon be on 22.3. After some time, you'll be on 23.x etc. These are referred to as point releases. So, whenever a new point release update hits, you'll receive a couple of months' worth of updates. And between two consecutive point releases, you'll receive little to no updates. So, basically, Linux Mint deliberately chooses to hold updates of. By doing so, it ensures you'll only receive updates that have undergone thorough testing.

Arch, on the other hand, has a much leaner testing phase. Heck, as pointed out earlier, it doesn't even wait for a certain moment to reach before it outputs an update. Instead, after the packages have had some testing, it pushes the updates out for its users to receive it. As such, you'll receive constant updates. And you're somewhat expected to at least perform daily updates. By doing so, it ensures you'll always have access to the latest and greatest.

Note that Arch is not the only rolling release distro. But, out of the 'Big 3'^[The others being Debian and Fedora*.], it's the only one that is rolling release by default.

Its release cycle does indirectly contribute to Arch being less newbie-friendly. Basically, any update comes with the risk of causing breakage. On Debian, this risk is partly mitigated by the infrequency of updates and by pushing out very well-tested updates to begin with. On Arch, you just have to deal with it every once in a while.

Note, however, that it's most often your fault and not Arch's. Secondly, after dealing with this a couple of times, you'd have acquired some excellent skills in troubleshooting.

highly mutable

Traditional distros are basically equally mutable. So, Arch doesn't (necessarily) outdo e.g. Debian or Fedora in this regard.

It has its own repo too by the looks of it?

It does. But that's a thing with independent distros. Linux Mint is a derivative of Ubuntu. Which, itself is a derivative of Debian. Debian, however, is independent. Similarly, Arch isn't derived from anything else; hence, it's an independent distro.

The list of independent distros isn't huge or anything, but I suppose there are at least a couple of dozens of 'm.

As for the own repository part, both pkgs.org and repology.org feature some resources on that.

[-] victorz@lemmy.world 3 points 6 hours ago

you're somewhat expected to at least perform daily updates.

As an Arch user of a decade by now, I tell you all, you most certainly do not need to update every day, I repeat, you do not need to update every day. That is absolutely not necessary, and will cause much undue stress. I would not recommend that at all. I update maybe once a week. And I find that to be quite consuming as it is.

[-] throwaway403@programming.dev 2 points 5 hours ago

Thanks for the elaboration!

The reply was already becoming quite long, so I deliberately chose to cut some corners here and there. I was hoping that the "somewhat" qualifier would do the heavy-lifting 😜.

[-] victorz@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago

😁 no worries, yeah. If I see an Arch user recommend updating daily, I would definitely question their experience. 😅

[-] throwaway403@programming.dev 1 points 3 hours ago

If I see an Arch user recommend updating daily, I would definitely question their experience. 😅

Interesting.

So, as I kinda alluded to elsewhere, I don't daily Arch nor have I ever done so in the past. I did have it as a dual boot earlier in my Linux journey. However, after breaking it for the second time, I just called it quits 😅.

Anyhow, with that out of the way, I am interested in your perspective w.r.t update frequency on Arch.

It has basically been my head canon that updating daily is (at least) reasonable on Arch. And while its excellent wiki doesn't dictate any number, I'm inclined to believe that -by updating once a week- one is acting by the lower bound in terms of frequency; I'd argue the default settings of paccache suggest as such.

[-] victorz@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

On Debian, this risk is partly mitigated by the infrequency of updates and by pushing out very well-tested updates to begin with. On Arch, you just have to deal with it every once in a while.

... not if you just postpone updating to the same schedule as Debian, lol. By spacing your updates out, you reduce the risk of catching breaking changes in just the same manner as Debian. Although Debian probably has more rigorous human testing as part of its release strategy, granted.

At any rate, I haven't had Arch break on me due to an update in all of the years I've used it. Over a decade by now. And I update very regularly.

[-] throwaway403@programming.dev 1 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

not if you just postpone updating to the same schedule as Debian, lol.

LOL, indeed.

About the breaking part, kudos to you for doing a great job at maintaining Arch. But I assume/think^[Please feel free to push back on this.] most people don't enjoy 'babysitting'^[This term isn't meant derogatory or anything. But it's what comes up to me whenever I see how involved this is. By contrast, I actually do apply daily updates on my semi-rolling daily driver. But I never have to give it any thought. Heck, it even happens automatically.] their OS 😅.

[-] victorz@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Yeah, that's a very common misconception, that you constantly have to "maintain" Arch, as if something happens to it just by having your computer running.

I do very little "maintenance" other than issue these commands:

$ paru
...
$ flatpak update
...

Before I upgrade the system, I check archlinux.org in order to see if there are any breaking changes that need manual handling. (Has happened maybe 2 times with packages that I have actually had installed, in 10+ years.)

Then, when paru has invoked pacman and upgraded native packages (from the Arch repo) and starts to upgrade foreign packages (from the AUR), I check the diffs in the package files (paru displays them) to make sure nothing looks fishy. Obviously upgrading Flatpak packages needs no maintenance.

This all takes about 5 minutes each time I do it, including downloading of new package versions, which is very little time per week. Even less if you do it less frequently, which you definitely can.

So when you say I do a good job maintaining Arch, is not really me. 😅 The Arch developers have done a superb job for me. And the maintainers of the Arch wiki are also true heroes. I just use it. 👍

The page you linked to is slightly FUD and yet simultaneously true because theoretically anything can happen and that serves as a disclaimer that the developers shouldn't be to blame, and nobody is owed support if something were to potentially break.

Ubuntu broke loads of times for me back in the day. Had to reinstall it several times. And all I did was issue the command for upgrading to a new Ubuntu point release. 😅

[-] victorz@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago

Though, I won't dismiss a special breed of newb that somehow manages to rawdog it quite 'successfully'.

I see people using the term "rawdogging" a lot and I don't think they actually know what it means. 🫣

[-] throwaway403@programming.dev 2 points 6 hours ago

I used it in this sense. But yeah, I admit it's not the traditional dictionary meaning. Unsure if it would be right to qualify it as a semantic change, though.

[-] victorz@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago

Fair enough 😆

[-] foofiepie@lemmy.world 4 points 16 hours ago

This is a hugely informative reply thank you!

[-] throwaway403@programming.dev 2 points 7 hours ago

It has been my pleasure :) . Thanks for the kind words!

[-] PancakesCantKillMe@lemmy.world 3 points 18 hours ago

!unixsocks@lemmy.blahaj.zone

[-] PancakesCantKillMe@lemmy.world 4 points 18 hours ago

They are referring to the unixsocks community. lol

[-] wjrii@lemmy.world 5 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

I'm using MX Linux (KDE) on an Early 2015 Macbook Air with a replaced battery. It's my backup/travel laptop, but so far I like it quite a bit. No dual boot for me either. Nothing officially supported by the machine is getting updates, and even the newest OSX you can cram on there only has a year or so left, IIRC.

[-] foofiepie@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

Thanks, I’ll look into MX. I wanted to try Endeavour because the KDE looked appealing, but when booting from the live iso, the kb, trackpad, wifi weren’t working.

The only thing I had to do with Mint was install the Broadcom wifi driver.

[-] wjrii@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

I haven't tried the webcam, but everything else, including WiFi, worked out of the box for me. The KDE version uses modern Plasma and is not a distro that moves hell and high water to get something working on a potato, but overall it is designed with middle-old machines like these in mind.

I'm sure a million other distros will work as well or better, but I do like MX, and it made me smile to see a child of the Mepis LiveCDs I used 20 years ago is still around.

[-] PancakesCantKillMe@lemmy.world 6 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

Stripped socks are not a requirement. They are a bonus, though (if you have the legs for them! ;-P ).

Nice job getting your system going! The full plunge is good to do as dual-booting just keeps you anchored in the past. I will admit, I keep images of my old OSes and run them as a VM if needed. Helps to go back and look at history or saved passwords, etc. I have Mint on several systems, but am changing to CachyOS on my desktop gamer for its better gaming posture. Mint is perfectly fine for most anything. You just need to tweak it to suit your scenario. Mint does also have a nice advantage of being widely used and therefore having greater search results when troubleshooting.

For Apple hardware, lots of folks use Asahi Linux. You might give that a look.

You can also take a peek at https://distrowatch.com/ to see what distros are popular and/or of interest to you.

I like to run different distros to keep myself fresh. I currently run Fedora, EndeavourOS, Solus, Mint, PopOS, CachyOS and Debian. These are on laptops, VMs and desktops (both large and mini systems).

Welcome and best of luck!

[-] urushitan@kakera.kintsugi.moe 5 points 15 hours ago

Important to note OP is using an old Intel Mac, so Asahi, concerned with new Apple M Series SoCs, will not work

[-] PancakesCantKillMe@lemmy.world 4 points 14 hours ago

Oh, gotcha. Thanks. Was not aware as I’ve never ponied up the dough for those. So will any distro work on the older Intel Macs? Is there a preferred one? Looks like Mint worked fine for them, so maybe that.

[-] urushitan@kakera.kintsugi.moe 4 points 12 hours ago

Pretty much, some of the very specific Apple hardware stuff like trackpad niceties might not be fully supported, but asahi hasn’t focused on those much either, their focus is mostly just compiling everything for Apple ARM and making sure boot and graphics work

[-] e0qdk@reddthat.com 6 points 19 hours ago

Glad you've got something up and running that you're happy with, but FYI 21.2 is fairly dated. It came out in 2023. It's still supported, but the expiration date is next year (instead of in 2029 like the current version, 22.3). If you're running it because you had problems with a later release, fair enough, but if you were unaware that it's not the latest version, you might want to upgrade and see if the newer version works well on your system before settling in.

Cheers!

[-] foofiepie@lemmy.world 3 points 19 hours ago

Ok that’s good to know. Thanks.

Is it better to upgrade incrementally or can you skip straight to latest?

[-] Zen_Shinobi@lemmy.world 5 points 17 hours ago

You could jump to the latest but it's a hastle if something goes wrong. I would just do a clean install since you don't have much installed.

[-] e0qdk@reddthat.com 4 points 19 hours ago

I'm not certain, but personally, I'd try taking a system snapshot with Timeshift and then upgrade to the latest -- unless Update Manager suggests otherwise.

[-] foofiepie@lemmy.world 3 points 18 hours ago

Thanks. Appreciated. Am assuming backup the home folder also.

I’ll be using it as a general browser / social/Lemmy machine but also for just learning Linux, structure, CLI and getting familiar with distros/DEs. Maybe a bit of dabbling in development.

[-] e0qdk@reddthat.com 3 points 18 hours ago

assuming backup the home folder also

If you've put anything significant in there, yeah, it's not a bad idea to backup your stuff. Timeshift doesn't usually backup the home folder; it usually takes daily/weekly/monthly snapshots of system folders.

I’ll be using it as a general browser / social/Lemmy machine but also for just learning Linux, structure, CLI and getting familiar with distros/DEs. Maybe a bit of dabbling in development.

Mint should do pretty well for your use case, at least as far as learning the Debian side of the family goes. The main drawback to Mint is that it's not bleeding edge -- which is also sometimes a strength. For old hardware, it's generally pretty good; for new hardware, I've had issues because of things like the kernel being too old and not having the drivers I needed. There are ways around that though like using the OEM/HWE kernel releases -- which is what I ended up doing when I put a modern GPU into my ~10 year old desktop.

this post was submitted on 17 Aug 2026
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