Tried for half the weekend to get elementary to work, it just refused to install for reasons unknown.

Gone with Mint for now.

I like the hardware (an old Intel MacBook Air) and didn’t want it to go to waste.

I’ll see how I get on with this desktop. Went feet first straight to bare metal because I couldn’t be bothered with dual boot. It was too much faff. Would value any insight from others who’ve found a lovely distro/DE combo with these tiny machines.

Making my first moves away from proprietary software. Thanks largely to being inspired by you delightful folk.

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[–] [S] 19 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

Oh also, I do not own any tights. I can ‘borrow’ my wife’s if it’s the law or something.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)
  • [–] 15 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    They're probably referring to the !unixsocks@lemmy.blahaj.zone community/meme.

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    Is it leggings then. I’ve seen people do this with soft toys and a spectacular range of stripy tights/leggings. Perhaps in another community. 😂

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    I think that's arch linux, not mint. But if you're interested in continuing down this path, you may need to soon.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    In my limited understanding (beyond the ‘Arch btw’ memes), Arch is an OS that’s quite fully featured, suited to veteran/power users, because it has regular updates/highly mutable. It has its own repo too by the looks of it?

    Is that correct?

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  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (4 children)

    Arch is an OS that’s quite fully featured

    Not entirely sure what you mean with that.

    suited to veteran/power users

    The gist is that Arch pretty much comes with little to no defaults. So, you are literally put into the position to make all the important decisions. Which, as you might have imagined already, basically requires you to be pretty knowledgeable on Linux in the first place. Thus making it mostly unsuitable for new users. Though, I won't dismiss a special breed of newb that somehow manages to rawdog it quite 'successfully'.

    because it has regular updates

    We refer to its release cycle as rolling release. Which basically alludes to the absence of a point release.

    The version of Linux Mint you were on is 21.2 and you'll soon be on 22.3. After some time, you'll be on 23.x etc. These are referred to as point releases. So, whenever a new point release update hits, you'll receive a couple of months' worth of updates. And between two consecutive point releases, you'll receive little to no updates. So, basically, Linux Mint deliberately chooses to hold updates of. By doing so, it ensures you'll only receive updates that have undergone thorough testing.

    Arch, on the other hand, has a much leaner testing phase. Heck, as pointed out earlier, it doesn't even wait for a certain moment to reach before it outputs an update. Instead, after the packages have had some testing, it pushes the updates out for its users to receive it. As such, you'll receive constant updates. And you're somewhat expected to at least perform daily updates. By doing so, it ensures you'll always have access to the latest and greatest.

    Note that Arch is not the only rolling release distro. But, out of the 'Big 3'^[The others being Debian and Fedora*.], it's the only one that is rolling release by default.

    Its release cycle does indirectly contribute to Arch being less newbie-friendly. Basically, any update comes with the risk of causing breakage. On Debian, this risk is partly mitigated by the infrequency of updates and by pushing out very well-tested updates to begin with. On Arch, you just have to deal with it every once in a while.

    Note, however, that it's most often your fault and not Arch's. Secondly, after dealing with this a couple of times, you'd have acquired some excellent skills in troubleshooting.

    highly mutable

    Traditional distros are basically equally mutable. So, Arch doesn't (necessarily) outdo e.g. Debian or Fedora in this regard.

    It has its own repo too by the looks of it?

    It does. But that's a thing with independent distros. Linux Mint is a derivative of Ubuntu. Which, itself is a derivative of Debian. Debian, however, is independent. Similarly, Arch isn't derived from anything else; hence, it's an independent distro.

    The list of independent distros isn't huge or anything, but I suppose there are at least a couple of dozens of 'm.

    As for the own repository part, both pkgs.org and repology.org feature some resources on that.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    you're somewhat expected to at least perform daily updates.

    As an Arch user of a decade by now, I tell you all, you most certainly do not need to update every day, I repeat, you do not need to update every day. That is absolutely not necessary, and will cause much undue stress. I would not recommend that at all. I update maybe once a week. And I find that to be quite consuming as it is.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Thanks for the elaboration!

    The reply was already becoming quite long, so I deliberately chose to cut some corners here and there. I was hoping that the "somewhat" qualifier would do the heavy-lifting 😜.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    😁 no worries, yeah. If I see an Arch user recommend updating daily, I would definitely question their experience. 😅

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    If I see an Arch user recommend updating daily, I would definitely question their experience. 😅

    Interesting.

    So, as I kinda alluded to elsewhere, I don't daily Arch nor have I ever done so in the past. I did have it as a dual boot earlier in my Linux journey. However, after breaking it for the second time, I just called it quits 😅.

    Anyhow, with that out of the way, I am interested in your perspective w.r.t update frequency on Arch.

    It has basically been my head canon that updating daily is (at least) reasonable on Arch. And while its excellent wiki doesn't dictate any number, I'm inclined to believe that -by updating once a week- one is acting by the lower bound in terms of frequency; I'd argue the default settings of paccache suggest as such.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    I think the frequency with which you update your computer is highly subjective. I have gone everywhere from weekly, to daily, to hourly, to yearly. All equally fine for the machine in question, and updates carried out without a hitch.

    If it isn't broken and does what you need, why update, you know what I mean? Especially if it isn't connected to the internet in some cases. 😁

    Regarding what you linked to paccache, which setting(s) were you referring to specifically? I don't think I was able to understand that it is directly suggesting or indirectly insinuating any type of update frequency. But I probably am just too tired to process. 😅

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    If it isn’t broken and does what you need, why update, you know what I mean? Especially if it isn’t connected to the internet in some cases. 😁

    I agree with that assessment whenever it's not connected to the internet. But, if it is, I actually find it hard to justify for myself to not (at least) receive the security updates. Which, in the case of non-frozen packages, suggests applying regular updates.

    But yeah, more than anything, I think this touches on threat models. Which are very subjective by themselves and thus probably not very interesting to discuss 😜.

    Regarding what you linked to paccache, which setting(s) were you referring to specifically? I don’t think I was able to understand that it is directly suggesting or indirectly insinuating any type of update frequency. But I probably am just too tired to process. 😅

    My apologies, perhaps I should have been more elaborate. So, paccache's man page mentions a systemd timer it refers to as paccache.timer. With it, package cache can be cleaned periodically. And, by default, it does so weekly.

    As to why this suggests weekly updates as a lower bound, paccache removes old packages. Thus, from my understanding, paccache goes hand in hand with updates; updates yield the old packages which will be deleted by paccache. As such, for two consecutive paccaches to do anything, an update has to have occurred in between. Thus, if paccache.timer defaults to weekly cleanups, then it has to be accompanied with at least a weekly update.

    Of course, paccache will handle higher update frequencies without any problem. Thus, updating only once a week becomes a lower bound for paccache.timer's default functionality.

    To be clear, I only said "suggest" :P . I can't do any stronger claims 😅.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago* (1 child)

    On Debian, this risk is partly mitigated by the infrequency of updates and by pushing out very well-tested updates to begin with. On Arch, you just have to deal with it every once in a while.

    ... not if you just postpone updating to the same schedule as Debian, lol. By spacing your updates out, you reduce the risk of catching breaking changes in just the same manner as Debian. Although Debian probably has more rigorous human testing as part of its release strategy, granted.

    At any rate, I haven't had Arch break on me due to an update in all of the years I've used it. Over a decade by now. And I update very regularly.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago* (1 child)

    not if you just postpone updating to the same schedule as Debian, lol.

    LOL, indeed.

    About the breaking part, kudos to you for doing a great job at maintaining Arch. But I assume/think^[Please feel free to push back on this.] most people don't enjoy 'babysitting'^[This term isn't meant derogatory or anything. But it's what comes up to me whenever I see how involved this is. By contrast, I actually do apply daily updates on my semi-rolling daily driver. But I never have to give it any thought. Heck, it even happens automatically.] their OS 😅.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 child)

    Yeah, that's a very common misconception, that you constantly have to "maintain" Arch, as if something happens to it just by having your computer running.

    I do very little "maintenance" other than issue these commands:

    $ paru
    ...
    $ flatpak update
    ...
    

    Before I upgrade the system, I check archlinux.org in order to see if there are any breaking changes that need manual handling. (Has happened maybe 2 times with packages that I have actually had installed, in 10+ years.)

    Then, when paru has invoked pacman and upgraded native packages (from the Arch repo) and starts to upgrade foreign packages (from the AUR), I check the diffs in the package files (paru displays them) to make sure nothing looks fishy. Obviously upgrading Flatpak packages needs no maintenance.

    This all takes about 5 minutes each time I do it, including downloading of new package versions, which is very little time per week. Even less if you do it less frequently, which you definitely can.

    So when you say I do a good job maintaining Arch, is not really me. 😅 The Arch developers have done a superb job for me. And the maintainers of the Arch wiki are also true heroes. I just use it. 👍

    The page you linked to is slightly FUD and yet simultaneously true because theoretically anything can happen and that serves as a disclaimer that the developers shouldn't be to blame, and nobody is owed support if something were to potentially break.

    Ubuntu broke loads of times for me back in the day. Had to reinstall it several times. And all I did was issue the command for upgrading to a new Ubuntu point release. 😅

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago

    Thank you for sharing that!

    Your approach to updating contains only a subset of what was found on the wiki, but I'm glad to hear that it has proven to be sufficient 🙂.

    Ubuntu broke loads of times for me back in the day. Had to reinstall it several times. And all I did was issue the command for upgrading to a new Ubuntu point release. 😅

    I've heard many horror stories of upgrading on Ubuntu 🤣🤣🤣. Thankfully, Arch has been good to ya 🙂.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Though, I won't dismiss a special breed of newb that somehow manages to rawdog it quite 'successfully'.

    I see people using the term "rawdogging" a lot and I don't think they actually know what it means. 🫣

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Glad you've got something up and running that you're happy with, but FYI 21.2 is fairly dated. It came out in 2023. It's still supported, but the expiration date is next year (instead of in 2029 like the current version, 22.3). If you're running it because you had problems with a later release, fair enough, but if you were unaware that it's not the latest version, you might want to upgrade and see if the newer version works well on your system before settling in.

    Cheers!

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    Ok that’s good to know. Thanks.

    Is it better to upgrade incrementally or can you skip straight to latest?

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    I'm not certain, but personally, I'd try taking a system snapshot with Timeshift and then upgrade to the latest -- unless Update Manager suggests otherwise.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Thanks. Appreciated. Am assuming backup the home folder also.

    I’ll be using it as a general browser / social/Lemmy machine but also for just learning Linux, structure, CLI and getting familiar with distros/DEs. Maybe a bit of dabbling in development.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago

    assuming backup the home folder also

    If you've put anything significant in there, yeah, it's not a bad idea to backup your stuff. Timeshift doesn't usually backup the home folder; it usually takes daily/weekly/monthly snapshots of system folders.

    I’ll be using it as a general browser / social/Lemmy machine but also for just learning Linux, structure, CLI and getting familiar with distros/DEs. Maybe a bit of dabbling in development.

    Mint should do pretty well for your use case, at least as far as learning the Debian side of the family goes. The main drawback to Mint is that it's not bleeding edge -- which is also sometimes a strength. For old hardware, it's generally pretty good; for new hardware, I've had issues because of things like the kernel being too old and not having the drivers I needed. There are ways around that though like using the OEM/HWE kernel releases -- which is what I ended up doing when I put a modern GPU into my ~10 year old desktop.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago* (1 child)

    Stripped socks are not a requirement. They are a bonus, though (if you have the legs for them! ;-P ).

    Nice job getting your system going! The full plunge is good to do as dual-booting just keeps you anchored in the past. I will admit, I keep images of my old OSes and run them as a VM if needed. Helps to go back and look at history or saved passwords, etc. I have Mint on several systems, but am changing to CachyOS on my desktop gamer for its better gaming posture. Mint is perfectly fine for most anything. You just need to tweak it to suit your scenario. Mint does also have a nice advantage of being widely used and therefore having greater search results when troubleshooting.

    For Apple hardware, lots of folks use Asahi Linux. You might give that a look.

    You can also take a peek at https://distrowatch.com/ to see what distros are popular and/or of interest to you.

    I like to run different distros to keep myself fresh. I currently run Fedora, EndeavourOS, Solus, Mint, PopOS, CachyOS and Debian. These are on laptops, VMs and desktops (both large and mini systems).

    Welcome and best of luck!

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Important to note OP is using an old Intel Mac, so Asahi, concerned with new Apple M Series SoCs, will not work

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Oh, gotcha. Thanks. Was not aware as I’ve never ponied up the dough for those. So will any distro work on the older Intel Macs? Is there a preferred one? Looks like Mint worked fine for them, so maybe that.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago

    Pretty much, some of the very specific Apple hardware stuff like trackpad niceties might not be fully supported, but asahi hasn’t focused on those much either, their focus is mostly just compiling everything for Apple ARM and making sure boot and graphics work

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago* (1 child)

    Welcome to the club!

    Quick question, tho: in what way is it 'mini'?

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago* (1 child)

    I'm using MX Linux (KDE) on an Early 2015 Macbook Air with a replaced battery. It's my backup/travel laptop, but so far I like it quite a bit. No dual boot for me either. Nothing officially supported by the machine is getting updates, and even the newest OSX you can cram on there only has a year or so left, IIRC.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 2 weeks ago* (1 child)

    Thanks, I’ll look into MX. I wanted to try Endeavour because the KDE looked appealing, but when booting from the live iso, the kb, trackpad, wifi weren’t working.

    The only thing I had to do with Mint was install the Broadcom wifi driver.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago

    I haven't tried the webcam, but everything else, including WiFi, worked out of the box for me. The KDE version uses modern Plasma and is not a distro that moves hell and high water to get something working on a potato, but overall it is designed with middle-old machines like these in mind.

    I'm sure a million other distros will work as well or better, but I do like MX, and it made me smile to see a child of the Mepis LiveCDs I used 20 years ago is still around.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Is there no desktop environment? Or is this a terminal window maximized full screen with a planet wallpaper?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago

    Sending you greetings (and a welcome) from another old laptop tha has been given new life through Mint! Mine is more of a Win7 piece, even if it was quite strong at the time.. Now it's scary fast, and working well!

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Btw, is there a TUI start menu like tool, with favorites and so on?

    Or even better, a whole status bar at the top/bottom, with time, battery, maybe even launched background processes listed you can bring to front?

    No reason that we can't have some Desktop metaphor niceties on shell too, no?

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 2 weeks ago

    I wouldn’t know how to do that tbh. I have merely the laptop, a copy of ‘The Linux Command Line’ and an internet connection and was going to see if I could figure it out. See how intuitive it is.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    That's a fantastic wallpaper. Mind dropping the link?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    If you really like Elementory you can try to install Pantheon on top of mint

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