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submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by inari@piefed.zip to c/technology@lemmy.world
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[-] kalleboo@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

So this ship is obviously just an experiment in greenwashing, it sounds like the panels basically just keep the lights on.

But if the 10,800 cars were all EVs equipped with V2L and you had them powering the ship, how far could their batteries at 100% propel the ship?

10,800 * 80 kWh = 864,000 kWh. Another post said the engine output is 15,000 kW, so it could go full steam for 864,000/15,000 = 57.6 hours? Although I guess using an electric rather than fossil engine will be a lot more efficient (2x? 3x?) Still, the energy density of oil is amazing...

[-] gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org 6 points 18 hours ago

very cool! does anyone know what fraction of its energy consumption that it can produce on-site? i.e. the 1 MWh that it produces a day from solar panels, how many % are that of its total energy consumption for propulsion that day?

[-] gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org 9 points 18 hours ago

i just calculated that 1 MWh is about 300 kg of fuel (that it replaces) a day. so in 2 weeks, that's maybe 5 t of fuel that it saves? that does not seem so much to me.

[-] turmacar@lemmy.world 0 points 9 hours ago

It may not be much but it is something.

They already run on crude instead of more refined fuel for very small percentage point gains in fuel cost.

5t less fuel over 2 weeks isn't nothing, and this is the first one. With visibly a shit-ton more room for more panels.

[-] yessikg@fedia.io 3 points 16 hours ago

Don't they also have big ships with sails?

[-] Abyssian@lemmy.world 4 points 20 hours ago

Man, I don't even have a 1 car carrier. It's never enough for some people.

[-] PowerCrazy@lemmy.ml 1 points 15 hours ago

Ultimately the paradigm of mass shipping millions of tons of cargo across the ocean needs to stop if the environment is something that anyone wants to pretend to care about. As far as the cargo that is shipped, Cars are certainly the worst.

[-] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 1 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

Shipping is a very small problem. In exchange for efficient centralized mass factory production it is no issue at all.

[-] jaykrown@lemmy.world 1 points 16 hours ago

I was actually thinking about this recently. It's now making a lot of sense to just cover the mega carriers in solar panels like this. Could probably even just carry a massive battery and be completely emissions free. Maybe a tiny nuclear reactor as an emergency backup?

[-] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 52 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

The ship’s solar system can produce up to 200 kilowatts at its peak and generates about 1,000 kilowatt-hours of electricity daily

The carrier also uses a dual-fuel propulsion system that operates on conventional fuel oil and LNG.

I was real excited for electric shipping since one ship like this produces an unbelievable amount of pollution, but this is kinda pitiful in comparison to the power needs of these ships:

The propulsion arrangement on each ship includes one MAN 6S60MC-MK 10.5-GI-EcoEGR main engine with a rated output of 14,950 kW (20,000 hp) driving a propeller, a 2,000kW bow thruster, and three Himsen 8H22CDF 1,500kW generators. The LNG fuel is stored in two type C tanks with a combined capacity of 1,700 cubic metres (370,000 gallons).

1000kwh isn't nothing ~~and I suppose it might meet the ship's power needs while in port~~ (edit: nvm average shore power consumption for a panamax is 600kw) but this feels like a whole lot of greenwashing given they don't mention the power requirements in the article.

[-] Mihies@programming.dev 16 points 1 day ago

It's more like half full cup, except here is 0.01% full.

[-] gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org 3 points 18 hours ago

actually i think it's more like 1% full.

[-] pHr34kY@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

Your average electric Porsche consumes more than 200kW.

It's basically rounding error when you lug 10,000 of them.

[-] bountygiver@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 day ago

hmm quite disappointing, guess to run something power hungry but has limited space like a ship nuclear might be the way if you want it fast, if you don't need it fast you could go wind power (sails are so back)

[-] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

honestly surprised they don't have something that utilizes the forces of the ocean to generate a charge.

[-] ohulancutash@feddit.uk 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Which would increase drag and make it a worthless exercise. It would also mean loss of power in stormy seas, and who wants manoeuvrability in those sort of conditions anyway?

[-] GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

that's quitter talk. if we can send trash into orbit we can certainly find a way to leverage oceanic motion.

[-] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Tidal generators are very much a technology (one, admittedly, in it's infancy). The forces the ocean provides are generally too extreme to be casually harnessed, and even something as seemingly benign as waves redounding on the beach contain energy on the scale of nuclear weapons, and it's contained in an extremely corrosive medium (salt water). And that's not even the deep ocean movements, which are unfathomably (sorry) more powerful even then, and that's before we get to the fact that the engine driving the tides is the entire damn moon.

Something like a tidal turbine would be completely unworkable on a ship; by their nature they produce energy from the difference of forces - which is to say, they would only generate power as long as the boat is moving counter to the current being harnessed. Even in an ideal world where we're sovereign citizens to the laws of thermodynamics and have cast off the shackles of entropy, your ship would still have to output the same amount of energy as your turbine is harvesting just to stay in one spot.

There's another common idea which is to use some kind of "water sail" that harnesses the currents and drags the ships along. The first problem with this is that, unless you're about to have a very bad day, the ocean is creepily slow. Waves travel through the water, but don't really displace the water molecules themselves, so there's very little for an underwater sail to harness (side note: but do make use of underwater sails, but in the exact opposite way most people expect - sea anchors are basically enormous submerged sails, used to keep a ship relatively stationary when it's too deep to use a traditional anchor). And were we to delve deeper for some of the deep thermal currents, it can take hundreds of years (or more) for water to make a complete cycle, which would be a very slow trip indeed.

Yet another proposal I've seen is to have some sort of large sliding body, a bit like those flashlights with a rod in them that you charge by shaking up and down, only much larger. The idea is that as the pitch of the ship changes as it ascends and descends waves, some very large weight (or multiple smaller weights or etc.) slides back and forth through long sets of coils, generating tremendous if quite periodic amounts of energy which is then stored in batteries or etc. This idea has many flaws, but I'll briefly touch on three:

  • The free surface effect, a mechanism through which things moving on a boat cause the spontaneous generation of so many partial differential equations that your ship decides it'll be easier just to sink itself
  • The huge amount of valuable cargo space that has to be dedicated to the generating system
  • The question of what to do when you're stuck on calm seas.

The best approach would be to capture the quicker currents that are close to the surface, which are are often wind driven. There's actually been huge advancements to harvest wind currents directly, usually using large sheets of cloth (or some other medium with high tensile strength) attached to long towers on the surface of the ship with these things called sails.

... Okay but joking aside, there actually have been really cool advances in using sails on cargo ships, that are extremely promising. More work needs to be done before we see them on a panamax, but there's already been some fairly eager adoption of rotor sails for smaller cargo ships! It's super cool tech that I hope can be combined with electrification to massively reduce (or if I were an optimist, eliminate entirely) the impact of shipping. Time will of course tell, but there is some cool progress being made.

[-] notabot@piefed.social 1 points 2 hours ago

The free surface effect, a mechanism through which things moving on a boat cause the spontaneous generation of so many partial differential equations that your ship decides it’ll be easier just to sink itself

Curses! Foiled by surprise differential equations again!

[-] Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

We already do with tidal generators.

And theres ways to follow currents for extra help, but you’re limited to that and where the current moves.

Anything else and you’d have to violate the laws of physics.

It’s like putting a wind turbine on an electric car. The increased drag would cost more electricity than the turbine could produce.

[-] kohlenstoff@feddit.org 7 points 1 day ago

If you wanna be serious about saving fuel use Flettner rotors.

[-] hanrahan@slrpnk.net 1 points 6 hours ago
[-] xthexder@l.sw0.com 8 points 21 hours ago

One of the first things that page says is that it generates less force than a standard marine propeller. That seems like it'd be less efficient and use more fuel to me.

[-] Theoriginalthon@lemmy.world 4 points 20 hours ago

You can't compare total force output to efficiency like that. You need power in and power out.

_However, the global economic crash caused a decrease in consumer buying confidence. In addition to this, Marine Diesel Oil (MDO) and the related engine technology required to use it became readily and cheaply available. Fuel prices at that point meant that any savings achieved by the rotor were too small for shipping companies to consider the investment due to the lengthy payback period. _

So yeah cheap fossil fuels strike again

[-] xthexder@l.sw0.com 1 points 9 hours ago

The exact quote is

"the propulsion force generated was less than the motor would have generated if it had been connected to a standard marine propeller."

Based on that, the input power is a constant because they are comparing against the same motor. I would assume the power consumption is constant rather than bursty for either propulsion system, so there isn't any peak-vs-avg power to be concerned about either.

[-] kohlenstoff@feddit.org 1 points 6 hours ago

That "source" is some NASA tutorial that just states that quote without any elaboration at the bottom. I don't know how that passes as a source at all nor is it generally applicable in modern ships.

On the other hand there are multiple ships currently using these as additional propulsion system (as you can see further below in the wiki article). Flettners inital prototype used rotors as exclusive propulsion system. One could also use a kite or a sail by using the wind in favourable conditions.

[-] yaroto98@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago

That looks a little gimmicky to me. I'd expect more panels on that ship if they were going to have a meaningful impact.

[-] Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 day ago

I saw a story about a similar car carrier with solar panels, basically they're used to offset the hotel load of the ship, and have nothing to do with the propulsion.

Which is still a significant improvement considering how much time a vessel like this spends at port loading and unloading.

[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

First thought it was a GPU or something.

this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2026
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