How can we get something done about BBC iPlayer? : apple@hardware.watch

How can we get something done about BBC iPlayer? (alien.top)

submitted 2 years ago by MrModius@alien.top [B] to c/apple@hardware.watch

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The iPlayer app is still absolute dogshit on Apple TV. No UHD programs, no season selection, no subtitle support (which is insane for a supposed organisation that champions inclusivisty), still no redesigned app which launched on all other platforms I can think of over two years ago...

When I've got in touch with the BBC to complain about the lack of subtitling in the past they have just said "it's too difficult" and panned me off, even though literally every other app including 'BritBox' which is partially owned by the BBC has them.

So I'm just wondering (especially with Doctor Who back on Saturday, and next year) if there is anything more I/we can be doing to get this sorted?

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[–] Worried_Patience_117@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago

let them have it they do look at feedback I wouldn’t hold your breath though

[–] ycbeta@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago

I stopped paying TV Licence and deleted all BBC apps.

[–] -King-Nothing-81@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago (3 children)

Over at avforums.com I've heard a while ago that a user was told by the BBC tech support that the app has all those limitations because of the lack of "MPEG-DASH" support on Apple TV.

So the solution would be that the BBC does some extra work to find workarounds for Apple TV or Apple would have to add support for "MPEG-DASH" in tvOS. I don't think any of this will happen.

I think this is similiar to Netflix not supporting interactive content on Apple TV because they say there is no support for "seamless branching". Or Spotify not rolling out their new "TV experience" to Apple TV because they can't use the same cross-platform code.

So to me it seems that we can also thank Apple for the state of some apps. Not supporting some standards and technologies in tvOS that are supported on many other devices. And I think it's understandable that some app providers don't want to do time and cost intensive extra work for the Apple TV device that has a relatively low market share.

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[–] music3k@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago (3 children)

I think this is similiar to Netflix not supporting interactive content on Apple TV because they say there is no support for "seamless branching". Or Spotify not rolling out their new "TV experience" to Apple TV because they can't use the same cross-platform code.

I dont know the story behind BBC, but these two do not work properly by choice of those companies. They compete with Apple with Apple Music and TV+, so the higher ups refuse to allow this support to work properly on AppleTVs. Its dumb.

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[–] Jimmni@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

The BBC is not competing with Apple TV or music. They are archaic and intransigent though.

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[–] music3k@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

That’s a neat point not relevant to my comment lol

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[–] Jimmni@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago

I was going to argue but I just re-read your comment and see I mis-read it the first time. Will remove my comment as it is indeed not relevant.

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[–] -King-Nothing-81@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago (2 children)

I could imagine that Amazon is making the Prime app on other devices bad by intention. Because they want that people use their services on their own Fire TV devices. But neither Netflix nor Spotify have their own hardware. And both have already stopped offering their subscriptions over Apple's AppStore. So if they provide an app for Apple TV, why should they have an interest in making the experience less good than on other devices? Instead of just ignoring Apple TV completely?

So personally I still think that those apps would be in a better shape if the developers could just use the same cross-platform code on ATV. Nowadays many apps are basically just dynamic webpages. But as far as I know Apple doesn't allow WebView on ATV. So developers would have to write workarounds or use wrappers to do things on ATV. So to me it seems that tvOS is just not a very developer friendly platform in this regard. But maybe a developer following this might want to comment on this.

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[–] music3k@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

Google and Netflix have had multiple deals over the years.

Same with Spotify and Google. Both apps have integration on google video devices

I dont own Amazon products, how does fireos work with them? Amazon is running away frkm android soon, so I imagine itll break if it works now

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[–] -King-Nothing-81@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

As FireOS is based on Android, the apps (Netflix and Spotify) look and feel almost identical to the Android TV versions. I would think the same about the BBC iPlayer app, but I don’t use it myself.

But Amazon‘s new OS (Vega OS) is said to also be Linux based (like Android) and rely even more on web technologies. Maybe similar to LG‘s WebOS they use on their Smart TVs. So I don’t think app developers will have problems porting those apps over.

And that’s my point here: Apple doesn’t allow WebKit on tvOS. So developers can’t rely on those web technologies and use the same shared code base on Apple TV. But as a hardware device, Apple TV is just not important enough, so they will spend much time and money with developing a native tvOS app. So I think that’s why we end up with those apps that feel very basic compared to other devices.

But I agree that it doesn’t help that especially Netflix and Spotify aren’t really big friends of Apple. Of course both can’t afford to ignore Apple‘s phones and tablets. But I guess it doesn’t hurt them much to kind of ignore Apple TV.

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[–] music3k@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

Arent there certain browsers that Netflix refuses to allow to work properly as well? I feel like Prime Video and Netflix are assholes toward specific browsers too.

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[–] -King-Nothing-81@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

I don’t use those services in a web browser. But of course they want to have a working copy protection / DRM. Chromium based browsers should work without issues (Chrome, Opera, Edge). But again: On Apple devices, all web browsers are forced to use Apple’s own WebKit engine. Even Google’s own Chrome browser. And on Apple TV, WebKit and web browsers aren’t supported at all.

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[–] music3k@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago

But again, Chromium is a Google product and these companies have deals with Alphabet/Google

On the flipside, Apple’s TV app works on pretty much everything.

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[–] Grand-Economics-5956@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

Amazon won’t care about hardware; I doubt they make any money on it, really it’s a means to an end, that end being subscription services.

I would think Amazon would actually like the idea of taking subscribers away from Apple on their own hardware so there is an incentive for them to make the app as good as possible.

Apple has a history of questionable decisions around widely accepted standards!

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[–] -King-Nothing-81@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago

I agree about Apple making some questionable decisions. If it wasn’t about having proper “frame rate matching“ across all major streaming apps, I think I would not own an Apple TV.

And of course Amazon doesn’t care about selling hardware. They want you to use a FireTV device to be able to force you to watch more and more ads.

https://www.aftvnews.com/fire-tvs-now-autoplay-full-screen-video-ads-when-waking-up-and-what-you-can-do-about-it/

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[–] planetf1a@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago

Frustrating. It's the one app I don't use some TV for. Fortunately it works well on my LG tv

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[–] Samhainuk@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

Really this is just an excuse for the BBC’s shitty behavior. Why would anyone expect different devices to have the same solution? BT sports were able to deliver 4K content, Netflix, Disney, Amazon are all able to do so as well. The truth is they just don’t see the value, probably because of market share. HLS vs Dash isn’t the barrier they are making out. They receive public money, they should be obliged to provide a similar service on all their supported devices.

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[–] -King-Nothing-81@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

Won't disagree on that. I think if they would really try, they would find a way to do all those things on Apple TV. I had an app from a german broadcaster that also lacked subtitles support for a long time. But a while ago they finally added support. Although you can see that the subtitles don't respect my style settings. So I guess they are using some workaround. And I could imagine that subtitles support lacked because of the same reason.

But on the other hand I think it's also true that Apple is kind of ignorant sometimes in some cases. And thinks they can afford to do things differently than everyone else. And regarding phones and tablets they can. Because they have a leading position there. But not when it comes to streaming boxes.

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[–] Samhainuk@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

But what are they doing differently? HLS vs moeg-dash? HLS is just as popular as dash and was around before it. It’s unrealistic to expect everyone to support the BBC’s preference when there are two very popular protocols.

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[–] -King-Nothing-81@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

But obviously there is broad support for MPEG-DASH on other devices. Because otherwise the app would have the same limitations there too. But I’m pretty sure that those devices will also support HLS. So you could also argue that if there are two very popular protocols out there, you should support both. And that you can’t expect from the BBC to change their protocol just because of that one streaming device out there.

But I don’t want to take a side on this. In the end it’s just the usual blame game of big companies. And the customer has to pay the price for it.

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[–] Samhainuk@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago

Given the fact everything supports HLS, the BBC choosing Moeg Dash is a weird decision.

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[–] dropmiddleleaves@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago

On this, I think it’s important to remember that the BBC are using a EU and UK standard, DVB-Dash, used in HbbTV platforms such as Freeview Play.

It’s really a case of Apple TV needing to properly support standards.

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[–] Bluion6275@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago

Ask Apple nicely to provide support for DVB-DASH HLG HDR which is what iPlayer uses, unfortunately out of around 300 other devices that do support it the ATV4K is one of the few that don’t.

[–] MixAway@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago

Agreed completely. It seems they deliberately can’t be arsed to offer proper app support for Apple TV, and Apple devices in general. They don’t offer a BBC Sounds app for ATV, despite one being available on a load of other platforms. And most annoyingly, no native HomePod support so you have to AirPlay the BBC Sounds app if you want to listen to their audio content or radio stations. It’s infuriating.

[–] Jujulabee@alien.top [B] 1 point 2 years ago

I am in the USA and subscribe to Britbox which is horribly glitchy on Apple TV

For many series with multiple seasons, you can't select a Season as whatever season you choose will bring up Season 1. If you are watching something and select through the What's Up it will bring up the next episode.