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Germans face five years in jail for denying Israel’s right to exist (www.telegraph.co.uk)

submitted 6 days ago by schizoidman@lemmy.zip to c/world@lemmy.world

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Chanting ‘from the river to the sea’ would be criminalised under proposed state law

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[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 23 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

And let me guess, the proposed law does not criminalize anyone saying "Between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty" (Likud'77) or denying Palestinians the right to self-determination (there is no such thing as a state's right to exist under international law, contrary to the very real right to self-determination, enshrined in the UN Charter, that Germany is a signatory to).

These jewish-supremacist idiots are fuelling anti-Semitism, while propping up a genocidal apartheid regime.

[-] Iusedtobeanalien@lemmy.world 40 points 6 days ago

Fuck the speech police

Israel: a country so weak and pathetic it controls peoples speech.

[-] NebulaNomad@lemmy.world 8 points 5 days ago

The tought police will get you next

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[-] crystalmerchant@lemmy.world 94 points 6 days ago

Israeli people have as much right to exist as Palestinian people. So let's not genocide the Palestinians, no matter how desperately Golda Meir claimed they're not real. Israel has a right to exist =/= Israel has a right to slaughter a culture. It's not fucking hard you cunts

[-] MightEnlightenYou@lemmy.world 30 points 6 days ago

It is really hard if you're only able to see the world in binary choices, which seems to be a common root of issues around the world

[-] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 9 points 6 days ago

This is basically the downfall of America.

[-] MightEnlightenYou@lemmy.world 7 points 5 days ago

As a non-American it doesn't appear as a loss really...

[-] Flax_vert@feddit.uk 4 points 5 days ago

I just hope they don't import their culture war BS here any further.

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[-] Doorbook@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago

Does human have right to exist? If yes, then those who identify themselves as Israeli and those who identify themselves as Palestinians have the right to exist.

However, including Israel as a state and government in this statement doesn't make sense.

Its like someone going to another person house and take over a room then say I have the right to exist. Yes you have the right to exist but not the right to steal, and control the house. Now this state literally committing an ongoing genocide. So yes they state doesn't have the right to exist.

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[-] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 65 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

People who are now Israelis have a right to exist, just like everybody else.

The nation of Israel has no right to exist, same as all other nations.

Funny how racialized politics, autoritarianist tendencies and even a certain view of nation states as more important than people, did not stop when NAZI Germany was defeated and are still very much alive and acted on in Germany - the symbols such as swasticas and goose-stepping aren't displayed anymore but the fundational aspects of the NAZI view of the world, of the value of people and of the validity of the use of force to suppress ideas the powerful dislike, are still alive and well in Germany.

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[-] kossa@feddit.org 26 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

* proposed law, which likely won't pass.

But, true enough, the proposition is insane.

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[-] kreskin@lemmy.world 45 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

German government seems to be as shamelessly bribed and corrupt as Americas.

[-] Tattorack@lemmy.world 39 points 6 days ago

When it comes to Israel, sort of.

Germany is making extreme over-corrections for their past. Everything related to the two world wars and the role they played in it is subject to censorship and oversight, to a degree that's almost comical if it weren't real.

[-] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 38 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

ONE MILLION Roma were murdered by the NAZIs during the Holocaust, alongside 3 million Jews.

Notice how German politicians don't "unwaveringly support" the Roma. In fact, they don't even talk about them.

The "change" in Germany after NAZIsm wasn't the end of the idea that ethnicity defines how somebody should be treated or that some ethnicities are "good" and others are "bad", it was merelly moving the Jewish People from the "bad" ethnicity to the "good" ethnicity column.

A consistent and non-racist "correction" for Germany's past would see all of the actual victims of NAZIsm and their descendants being compensated for it, be they Roma, Jews, Handicaped, Homosexuals, Communists or from any other group, and ONLY the victims, not this Racist bullshit of claiming that all individuals of an entire and very specific ethnicity are all deserving of support even though the vast majority of them are in no way form or shape related to the victims of the NAZIs except for being born in the same ethnicity, whilst not doing it for those from other equally targetted groups (something I emphasize because it really shows how even the supposed "making of amends" is done in a Racist way).

This shit we see in Germany is not a genuine change from the way of thinking of the past, it's just in the face of defeat doing the minimum required adjustment to the defeated political ideology to please the victors, which was moving a specific ethnicity which is influential in the main winner country of the war from untermenschen to ubermenschen, without doing it for any other targetted ethnicity, much less actually reforming the way of thinking about and acting towards people as "ethnics" that underpinned NAZIsm or even, as we see in this law, refuse to use force to silence dissenting opinions.

The "change" in Germany is mainly changing the façade, not at all the foundations - i.e. image management, not reform - hence how right now the open racism of "unwaveringly supporting" a genocidal nation with no other reason than the dominant ethnicity there and the choice of using force against those who disagree such as this law are right alongside:

Everything related to the two world wars and the role they played in it is subject to censorship and oversight, to a degree that’s almost comical if it weren’t real.

[-] boonhet@sopuli.xyz 4 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

It's not particularly complex. Israel spends hundreds of millions a year on hasbara. In fact they upped the budget by more than 4x this year. Any German politician saying anything against Israel would be seen as Hitler 2.0 by a lot of people, because Israel == Jews and disagreeing with Israel == wanting to genocide Jews if it comes from a German politician in particular.

In 2008, Merkel actually said Israel's security is Germany's reason for existence. Merz, an Israel supporter himself, said in October that Germany can't support another government "unconditionally" because the first priority of a government should be the people that live in the country itself.

Overall, support for Israel is down in Germany (among real people, not politicians), but there's still a bunch of international propaganda by Israel making Israel out to be victims of literally everything and associating all Jewish people with Israel despite the fact that internationally, many disagree with zionism.

It'll take long for things to change significantly, but change is underway.

[-] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Good.

That said my point still stands that the "support" for the Jewish People in Germany was never a visible element of a move away from the way of thinking which was the foundation of NAZIsm, it was only a façade whilst the Racism remained unabatted and the authoritarian tendencies were only mildly suppressed, as demonstrated by the totally different treatment extended to other victims of the Holocaust such as the Roma People, by the continuation of Race-centric treatment of people when supposedly moving away from the NAZI years into the "making of amends" to the victims (rather than a race-agnostic victim-centric view) and by the repeated use of Force in Germany to suppress political dissent such as llustrated by this law (and the countless videos of the politzei's treatment of anti-Genocide demonstrators).

At least at the level of the political elites Germany is not a modern liberal nation, it's a Racist nation with a very limited and mainly performative bit of "liberalism" (in such a fertile field of Race-centric and Authoritarian thinking, no wonder the growth of the AfD)

Germany (and the rest of the West, but Germany is significantly worse than most, IMHO) needs to move away from from the Normalized Racism of using people's ethnicity as a determinant of their worth and deserved treatment and towards Humanist views, as well as away from creeping Authoritarianism like this.

It was and is so easy for the Zionists in Israel to manipulate Germany exactly because the latter country doesn't really follow Humanist values (it just puts on a show of being a "modern" "liberal" country) hence the reaction to the Zionist Genocide was not the Humanist reaction (your actions define your worth and thus our support, and those who mass murder civilians don't get our support), it was the extreme Racist reaction (the Kanzelier proclaiming "we unwaveringly support the Jewish Nation" at a point when the list of murdered babies 1 year old or younger in Gaza was already 17 pages long) and the Racism and Authoritarianism have carried on since, hence the continued forcefull suppression of anti-Genocide views, including this law.

And this shit wasn't just the CDU and SDP, even the Greens had a Race-centric take rather than a Humanist one, holding a position which can only be derived from the belief that Race is more important than even Human Life.

All this to say that the change that has to happen for Germany to enter the XXI century is a lot deeper and fundamental than the miniscule step of stopping the "unwavering support for Jewish Nation".

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[-] GuyIncognito@lemmy.ca 9 points 5 days ago

[-] anon_8675309@lemmy.world 10 points 5 days ago

Okay Germany, but this time they might deserve some of the hate.

[-] Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago

Albert Einstein's letter to the NY Times was 100% correct about Israel and Palestine. Is the German government going to trash his name too?

[-] LuigiMaoFrance@lemmy.ml 9 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

So called right to exist.

[-] redsand@infosec.pub 18 points 6 days ago

Are they going to make the cells out of Irony?

[-] RockBottom@feddit.org 22 points 6 days ago

Two wrongs don’t make one right, my fellow Germans!

[-] Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 15 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

A liberal democracy, apparently

[-] CyroSignal@lemmy.world 10 points 6 days ago

Germany is going too far...

[-] ZiggyTheZygote@lemmy.ca 15 points 6 days ago

Too far right.

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[-] Tarkcanis@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago

Based on that time 3200+ years ago when they stole it.

[-] Paragone@lemmy.world 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I wonder if they've the gall to jail somebody for wearing a t-shirt which reads:

Palestine & Israel have EQUAL right to exist.

_ /\ _

[-] Kazel@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 days ago

Hier geht keiner in den knast für sowas, sind ja keine dummen amis, die ihre bevölkerung wegsperren

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this post was submitted on 27 Apr 2026

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