Fuck AI

[–] MartianSands@sh.itjust.works 33 points 8 months ago (2 children)

That's the problem with all of these attempts. They treat these "poisons" as if they work on AI in general, when in fact they're very specifically created to target specific models.

Not only will they only work on some AIs, it's not terribly difficult to modify the AI enough that it needs a different poison

parent

[–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 27 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Just like with poisonous creatures in nature its not about just killing everything that tries to eat you its about making it easier to eat something else. Having to CONSTANTLY develop new strategies in order to train their models on artwork increases the cost to maintain this practice. Eventually it raises it high enough that the cost isn't worth the result.

parent

[–] underisk@lemmy.ml 14 points 8 months ago

Eventually it raises it high enough that the cost isn’t worth the result.

This is the basis for all digital security/encryption.

parent

[–] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Also, I'd really like to know how much additional processing time is required to de-nightshade an image? And how much is required to detect nightshade, if that's even a different amount? Do you just have to de-nightshade every image to be safe?

Suppose the workload of de-nightshading is equal to the workload of training on that image. You've just doubled training costs. What if it's four times? Ten times?

That de-nightshading tool works in a lab, sure, but the real question is if it scales in a practical and cost effective way. Because for each individual artist the cost of applying nightshade is functionally nil, but the cost for detecting / removing it could be extremely high.

parent

[–] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 6 points 8 months ago (1 child)

Plus they have to keep developing solutions to Nighshade 2 and Nightshade 2.1 and the Deathcap fork etc. etc. An enthusiastically developed open source project with a bunch of forks and versions is not an easy thing for a big lumbering corporation to keep up with. Especially a corporation that is actively trying to replace staff with AI coders.

parent

[–] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 1 point 8 months ago

There's also the assymetric failure modes. If nightshade fails, well, we just end up with the current status quo. LLMs get trained on people's art. But if the tactics to prevent it fail, a very expensive LLM gets poisoned in some specific way. So it's much more important for the LLM trainers to always succeed than it is for the people developing nightshade variants.

parent

[–] ZDL@lazysoci.al 1 point 8 months ago

Well degenerative AI in general doesn't scale in a practical and cost effective way, so ... I think the conclusion for de-nightshading is obvious?

parent

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago*

Idk, I'm not convinced. A lot of AI develpment gets treated like a black box algorithm. Overconstraining can lead to model collapse due to more convergent behavior than normal.

parent

[–] eleijeep@piefed.social 3 points 8 months ago

If anyone wants to go directly to the paper: https://www.usenix.org/system/files/usenixsecurity25-foerster.pdf

parent

[–] ceenote@lemmy.world 25 points 8 months ago (1 child)

I give it one month before Donald Trump signs a bill outlawing the poisoning of AI models with bipartisan support.

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago (1 child)

"with bipartisan support" is where you've lost me.

parent

[–] ceenote@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago*

Plenty of politicians on both sides are in big tech's pockets. When it's a Democrat it's a bug, when it's a Republican it's a feature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_entry

parent

[–] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 15 points 8 months ago

What's old is new again.

Fictitious or fake entries are deliberately incorrect entries in reference works such as dictionaries, encyclopedias, maps, and directories, added by the editors as copyright traps to reveal subsequent plagiarism or copyright infringement. There are more specific terms for particular kinds of fictitious entry, such as Mountweazel, trap street, paper town, phantom settlement, and nihilartikel.[1]

Disregarding the obscene amount of automation at play, the underlying problem and its remedy remain somewhat the same. Put bad data into a very large dataset, such that it evades cursory scans, and the unaware plagiarists are eventually caught red-handed.

[–] ZDL@lazysoci.al 9 points 8 months ago (1 child)

Isn't the easiest way to poison the degenerative AI pool to just feed it degenerative AI output?

[–] hildegarde@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 8 months ago

This tool is for artists to protect their own works from theft. This tool watermarks the art in a minor way that is difficult for humans to notice, but messes up current AI models that use it as training data.

Yes AI incest does degrade the models, but that strategy is ineffective at protecting the works of artists.

parent

[–] drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 8 months ago

"new"

[–] Blaster_M@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago (2 children)

It's trivial to defeat this, and at the levels you need to really make it work, your image looks terrible. Don't publicly share something if you don't want it to get in a dataset somehow.

[–] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

Eh, it's not hard to hide things away in a website that only a bot (or a very determined human) will find. You don't have to poison all your images, just enough of them.

parent

[+] SereneSadie@quokk.au 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

[deleted]