We all migrate to smaller websites try not to post outside drawing attention just to hide from the "Ai" crawlers. The internet seems dead except for the few pockets we each know existed away from the clankers

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[–] 215 points 9 months ago (6 children)

I have a testing website. I have never gave the address to absolutely anyone, ever. It's not linked with anything. It's just a silly html site living in a domain.

It's still being ping and probed to death by bad actors. No necessarily AI scrappers. But it's dozens or hundreds of http petitions a day for random places all over the world.

There's no black forest. It's all light up and under constant attack, every tree is already on fire.

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  • [–] 109 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    That's because it's numerically possible to sweep through the entire IPv4 address range fairly trivially, especially if you do it in parallel with some kind of botnet, proverbially jiggling the digital door handles of every server in the world to see if any of them happen to be unlocked.

    One wonders if switching to purely IPv6 will forestall this somewhat, as the number space is multiple orders of magnitude larger. That's only security through obscurity, though, and it's certain the bots will still find you eventually. Plus, if you have a doman name the attackers already know where you are — they can just look up your DNS record, which is what DNS records are for.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    But an IP can have multiple websites and even not return anything on plain IP access. How do crawlers find out about domains and unlinked subdomains? Do they even?

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  • [–] 19 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    @kossa @dual_sport_dork If you're using HTTPS, which is by and large the norm nowadays, then every domain is going to be trivially discoverable via certificate transparency logs: https://social.cryptography.dog/@ansuz/115592837662781553

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    thinking about this, wouldn't the best way to hide a modern websie be something along getting a wildcard domain cert (can be done with LE with DNS challenge), cnaming the wildcard to the root domain and then hosting the website on a random subdomain string ? am I missing something

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago

    I do something something like this using wildcard certs with Let's Encrypt. Except I go one step further because my ISP blocks incoming data on common ports so I end up using an uncommon port as well.

    I'm not hosting anything important and I don't need to always access to it, it's mostly just for fun for myself.

    Accessing my site ends up looking like https://randomsubdomain.registered-domain-name.com:4444/

    My logs only ever show my own activity. I'm sure there are downsides to using uncommon ports but I mitigate that by adjusting my personal life to not caring about being connected to my stuff at all times.

    I get to have my little hobby in my own corner of the internet without the worry of bots or AI.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    It's not as simple as "only security through obscurity". You could say the same thing for an encryption key of a certain length. The private key to a public key is still technically just an obscurity, but it's still impractical to actually go through the entire range

    IPv6 is big enough where this obscurity becomes impractical to sweep. But of course, as you said, there may be other methods of finding your address

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Do you know how they find it? Is it just random input of address over and over?

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  • [–] 43 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Almost certainly. There are only 4,294,967,296 possible IPv4 addresses, i.e. 4.3ish billion, which sounds like a lot but in computer terms really isn't. You can scan them in parallel, and if you're an advanced script kiddie you could even exclude ranges that you know belong to unexciting organizations like Google and Microsoft, which are probably not worth spending your time messing with.

    If you had a botnet of 8,000 or so devices and employed a probably unrealistically generous timeout of 15 seconds, i.e. four attempts per minute per device, you could scan the entire IPv4 range in just a hair over 93 days and that's before excluding any known pointless address blocks. If you only spent a second on each ping you could do it in about six days.

    For the sake of argument, cybercriminals are already operating botnets with upwards of 100,000 compromised machines doing their bidding. That bidding could well be (and probably is) probing random web servers for vulnerabilities. The largest confirmed botnet was the 911 S5 which contained about 19 million devices.

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    [–] 47 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Fabulous insight. I think that would make me very happy. Bring back the forests! Burn down the Nazi trees!

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  • [–] 40 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    How about just living in the actual woods with no internet? Gets more tempting by the day.

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    [–] 31 points 9 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 27 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Cyberpunk as a literary genre, and the Cyberpunk TTRPG in specific, are incredibly prophetic. In the Cyberpunk TTRPG (which predates the WWW), "the net" is eventually condemned (as in boarded up) because of AI and ia replaced by silo'd networks (think extended intranets).

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago

    And of course in Cyberpunk the ttrpg setting much of the o0en internet was rendered useless by self replicating AI malware hijacking storage, processing, and bandwidth due to a zero day exploit discovered by one egomaniacal hacker.

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  • [–] 23 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Well I mean that's kind of what Lemmy is like since it's far more niche than something like reddit, but AI crawlers will find it anyway.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    AI crawlers don’t even need to crawl individual instances. If someone wanted to scrape Lemmy, it would be way more efficient to simply spin up their own instance and let federation do its thing. Federation is literally a built in way to mass distribute content to a bunch of different servers. So just spin up an instance, set it to not respect delete requests, (so you still get the deleted posts and comments), and scrape it locally. The entire thing could be set up in like 20 minutes, and it would allow for passive data collection instead of requiring active scrapers that run constantly.

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  • [+] 13 points 9 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 child)
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    [–] 12 points 9 months ago (2 children)
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    [–] 11 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Back in the days of dial up and bbs this was a problem but you would still get robots trying to connect to modems by dialing every phone number possible.

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    [–] 11 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    shhh they'll hear you!

    FUCK WE'RE TOO LATE, YOU ACTIVATED THE BOTS! YOU DOOMED US!

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    It's almost time, we're almost back to web-rings.

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    [–] 8 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Isn't that what TOR-based .onion sites are for?

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    [–] 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Ah a fellow spacetime enjoyer

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    [–] 7 points 9 months ago (1 child)
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    [–] 7 points 9 months ago

    Morpheus, that you?

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I would prefer a smaller HUMAN internet, over a bigger AI internet.

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    [–] 6 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Do you think there will be safe places on the internet?

    If it's connected, it's accessible. Won't matter what human level security we put in place when the datacenters these clankers run on have enough GPUs to brute force their way through.

    Offline communication will make a resurgence, and will become indespensible when the resource wars the billionaires are funding reach the rest of the world.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    I was thinking the other week about how it's getting to a point that I would consider a membership fee to access something like lemmy but guaranteed no AI or bots or bullshit advertising.

    I know it isn't possible, but if it was, I'd pay a small fee to have it.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    peaks out from behind tree

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    [–] 5 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    The last reduct of mankind against the machines? Let's call it Sion

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    [–] 5 points 9 months ago (1 child)
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