Money quote:

Excel requires some skill to use (to the point where high-level Excel is a competitive sport), and AI is mostly an exercise in deskilling its users and humanity at large.

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[–] 136 points 1 year ago (54 children)

There are things that could be done to improve Excel. For instance, fully integrate python and allow it to be used to create custom functions. Then, maybe one day, VBA can ride off into the sunset where it belongs.

Adding Copilot to Excel is not an improvement because Copilot and all other LLM based platforms frequently barfs out totally incorrect information about how to do something in Excel.

"You do that using formula."

No, I can't, you worthless pile of shit because THAT FORMULA DOESNT EXIST.

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  • [–] 65 points 1 year ago (23 children)

    Integrated python scripts in excel sounds like a malware developers dream.

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    And a nightmare for an application developer told to make some app with a spreadsheet for a database scale

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Is that creepy thing still alive?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    It can't be ... but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. I remember making fun of Access on StackOverflow circa 2008 and running afoul of some dude there who was like the last living Access consultant on Earth. I've never encountered defensive rage like that before or since.

    Fun Access fact, the Diebold-manufactured voting machines that featured prominently in the 2000 presidential election cycle used an Access database as their underlying data storage mechanism. Access DBs did incorporate an audit table - which was manually-editable.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    Surely there’s some sort of sandboxing that could be done? Like start by disallowing sys calls entirely

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    Definitely, but sandboxes can be escaped, and you can't protect everything via sandbox. Apparently its all cloud anyway, but if it were local and sandboxed, there are still exploits like rowhammer and spectre that may cause further risks.

    Its taken years to get browser sandboxes to where they are, and even they get broken every so often.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    They foresaw that. That's because python on Excel doesn't run locally, but in the cloud and then returns the result to you: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/introduction-to-python-in-excel-55643c2e-ff56-4168-b1ce-9428c8308545

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Still sounds like you'd be shipping your data to the cloud, where it can be exfilled from there.

    Would potentially be a great phishing tool, just need to trick someone into putting sensitive data into a precooked excel file, and it gets exfilled.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Currently only for business customers which probably use OneDrive or SharePoint anyways, so it's not that they need that to exfiltrate data. But for a phishing/hacking attempt? There are probably some nice possibilities.

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    [–] 65 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    Why would anyone use an LLM as calculator?

    That just doesn't make sense.

    It is like using a calculator as typewriter because it can spell 80085.

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  • [–] 38 points 1 year ago* (8 children)

    So what you are saying is, my car is a typewriter?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I did this with my car when I got to that point and sent it to my girlfriend, but I photoshopped it so it said I was going over 100. Anyway I thought it was funny.

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    [–] 30 points 1 year ago

    There's an old story about the lead developer at Texas Instruments saying "I want a computer that fits in my pocket". And then his staff dutifully measured the pocket to spec before proceeding to perform a feat of miniaturization that would revolutionize the modern world.

    I'm trying to imagine one of the techies, from way out in the back, saying "Does it have to get the right answer?" Then getting fired, walking off the job, and walking into Microsoft with 10x the salary the next day.

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  • [+] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
    [–] 16 points 1 year ago

    Our very own economic Butlerian jihad.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Give Microsoft some credit! Excel has been able to come up with wrong answers for decades. For example, reporting 1900 as a leap year.

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    [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Are you kidding? Microsoft has always been shit at math. According to Microsoft Excel, 2 + 2 = 12:04 AM Jan 1, 1900.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    OK, I'm not really mad at this. I already used Copilot to design a table for me in Excel and it worked really well. It did everything for me, and I just had to copy-paste the formulas into their appropriate spots. If it's built-in, possibly will work better.

    Not everybody needs to be an Excel expert, after all. Having that functionality might be actually beneficial.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    How do you know those formulas are correct?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    By verifying that they're correct...? 🤔

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

    I think the concern is that you can come up with a number of formulas that will get correct answers for some combinations of values and not others.

    If you do not understand the logic of the formula, and what each function does, how do you verify they are correct and will always give you the results you think they will? Double check every result in its entirety?

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Wrong, they already had that with Excel. There were a bunch of functions that delivered wrong returns for years, and none of the users (mostly economists) had noticed.

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    [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    This is such a misguided article, sorry.

    Obviously you’d be an idiot to use AI to number crunch.

    But AI can be extremely useful for sentence analytics. For example, if you’re trying to classify user feedback as positive or negative and then derive categories from the masses of text and squash the text into those categories.

    Google Sheets already does tonnes of this and we’re not writing articles about it.

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