▲ 701 ▼ Automakers must build cheaper, smaller EVs to spur adoption, report says (arstechnica.com) submitted 2 years ago by boem@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world 266 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] harry_balzac@lemmy.world 49 points 2 years ago (27 children) It's almost as if consumers influence markets. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 27 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 38 points 2 years ago (20 children) unfortunately we have to have a competing option to vote for with our wallets. There is not a single affordable EV available in the US. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 20 child comments replies: [–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 2 years ago (19 children) The Chevy Bolt and Nissan Leaf are both under $30k, and there's a Mini Cooper that's just barely over $30k. There's only 1 other car from Chevy that's cheaper than the Bolt, and only 2 models from Mini cheaper than their EV. Nissan seems to be a leader with cheap cars, with 6 cheaper models than the Leaf. When you add in the tax rebates for buying electric that reduces the price an additional $7500. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 19 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 16 points 2 years ago (11 children) Just 20k more to go to compete with what chinese drivers have access to. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee 8 points 2 years ago (10 children) Well yeah. We have safety laws. You cant build a car out of chinesium and have it pass US Safety tests. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago (8 children) You know whats safe? A smaller, cheaper engine with a lower top speed. I dont need hundreds of miles of range and 100mph top speed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (7 children) Well you need a strong engine to get up to speed in a decent amount of time, and to go up hills full loaded. You also need tall gears for fuel efficiency. Combined, it means almost every production car can go 100+ mph. Also range? Thats just a gas tank. A 10 gallon gas tank will take most small cars 300 miles, its not a lot. Why focus on range? Seems weird to me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago (3 children) Sorry im used to engines, we're talking about EV's. Thats something other countries have as an option, lower speed, lower range, more affordable vehicles. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee -2 points 2 years ago (2 children) Ah, so do we. Off highway vehicles. Few use them as a daily because why would you? A 10 year old used car is much better choice than anything new, if you want affordable, and you get the speed and range permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not off highway, street legal. Legal to drive on the 40mph roads we have in town. For climate purposes, gas price reasons, and fewer moving parts and maintenance involved, i want an electric vehicle. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago I couldn't agree more. For now, my options are electric scooters/bikes. Which are pretty great but don't have air conditioning! The US will continue to trail behind the rest of the world in this industry due to the greed and lobbying bribery of the auto companies. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) You need a 20 lb electric motor to have absolutely butt-kicking torque in an EV. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Plus a 1000 pound battery. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Yeah, the battery is gonna weigh a lot. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Yoddel_Hickory@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 years ago As if American cars had any reputation for reliability XD permalink fedilink source parent [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago (6 children) That's great. Half of America needs a 15k car. That's the magic number for Mass adoption. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de -3 points 2 years ago (5 children) And where are you going to find any new car in the US for $15k? The average cost of a new car in the US this year was over $40k, and there are several EV options available for practically anyone in the market for a new car. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (4 children) Kia Forte Hyundai Venue Nissan Versa Mitsubishi Mirage Kia Rio Kia Soul Cars aren't supposed to cost more than half your annual income. Half the country makes less than 36k a year. The domestic auto makers are trying to hide behind inflation for their price increases, but their record profits tell us they aren't just raising prices with cost. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children) 2024 Kia Forte $19,790 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/forte 2024 Hyundai Venue $19,800 Starting MSRP - https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/vehicles/venue 2024 Nissan Versa $16,130 Starting MSRP - https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/cars/versa-sedan.html 2024 Mitsubishi Mirage $16,695 Starting MSRP - https://www.mitsubishicars.com/cars-and-suvs/mirage 2023 Kia Rio $16,750 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/rio (There isn't a 2024 version as this model has been dropped) 2024 Kia Soul $19,990 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/soul Which of these cars that you listed are $15k? The Chevy Bolt EV is less than half the cars you listed when you look at the base price ($26,500) minus the Federal Tax Credit ($7,500). The original comment I replied to said that "there is not a single affordable EV" in the US and I listed 3 that are under the average cost for any new cars in the US. Then you claimed that EVs need to be $15k in order to reach mass adoption, even though there are no new cars available in the US at that price. You can argue that cars are priced too high, or the car companies are making too much money, but the fact is that for anyone in the market for a new car, there are EVs available in every new car price range. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) Oh I'm sorry the price isn't exact across different manufacturers and models? That's just ridiculous. And yes there's a reason the Bolt sold so well. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's ridiculous that the examples you gave don't back up the statement you made? Yeah, I agree. I also agree with my original statement that the Chevy Bolt is one of 3 affordable EVs currently available. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Cars that cost most of a year's income are not affordable. No amount of semantics is going to make that true. permalink fedilink source parent [–] metaStatic@kbin.social 18 points 2 years ago (4 children) If we start with an expensive sports car we will make enough money that it will eventually trickle down to affordable vehicles. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (3 children) Porsche does have an EV, and there's an EV mustang now (only $45k, which shocked me) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] helenslunch@feddit.nl 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Imo the mustang name should have been retired 20 years ago. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] helenslunch@feddit.nl 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago* I think it is at least as much about maturity of the technology, and competition in the market. Obviously we all want better cheaper cleaner cars. That hasn't suddenly changed. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] blazera@kbin.social 38 points 2 years ago (20 children) unfortunately we have to have a competing option to vote for with our wallets. There is not a single affordable EV available in the US. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 20 child comments replies: [–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 2 years ago (19 children) The Chevy Bolt and Nissan Leaf are both under $30k, and there's a Mini Cooper that's just barely over $30k. There's only 1 other car from Chevy that's cheaper than the Bolt, and only 2 models from Mini cheaper than their EV. Nissan seems to be a leader with cheap cars, with 6 cheaper models than the Leaf. When you add in the tax rebates for buying electric that reduces the price an additional $7500. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 19 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 16 points 2 years ago (11 children) Just 20k more to go to compete with what chinese drivers have access to. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee 8 points 2 years ago (10 children) Well yeah. We have safety laws. You cant build a car out of chinesium and have it pass US Safety tests. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago (8 children) You know whats safe? A smaller, cheaper engine with a lower top speed. I dont need hundreds of miles of range and 100mph top speed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (7 children) Well you need a strong engine to get up to speed in a decent amount of time, and to go up hills full loaded. You also need tall gears for fuel efficiency. Combined, it means almost every production car can go 100+ mph. Also range? Thats just a gas tank. A 10 gallon gas tank will take most small cars 300 miles, its not a lot. Why focus on range? Seems weird to me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago (3 children) Sorry im used to engines, we're talking about EV's. Thats something other countries have as an option, lower speed, lower range, more affordable vehicles. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee -2 points 2 years ago (2 children) Ah, so do we. Off highway vehicles. Few use them as a daily because why would you? A 10 year old used car is much better choice than anything new, if you want affordable, and you get the speed and range permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not off highway, street legal. Legal to drive on the 40mph roads we have in town. For climate purposes, gas price reasons, and fewer moving parts and maintenance involved, i want an electric vehicle. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago I couldn't agree more. For now, my options are electric scooters/bikes. Which are pretty great but don't have air conditioning! The US will continue to trail behind the rest of the world in this industry due to the greed and lobbying bribery of the auto companies. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) You need a 20 lb electric motor to have absolutely butt-kicking torque in an EV. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Plus a 1000 pound battery. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Yeah, the battery is gonna weigh a lot. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Yoddel_Hickory@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 years ago As if American cars had any reputation for reliability XD permalink fedilink source parent [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago (6 children) That's great. Half of America needs a 15k car. That's the magic number for Mass adoption. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de -3 points 2 years ago (5 children) And where are you going to find any new car in the US for $15k? The average cost of a new car in the US this year was over $40k, and there are several EV options available for practically anyone in the market for a new car. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (4 children) Kia Forte Hyundai Venue Nissan Versa Mitsubishi Mirage Kia Rio Kia Soul Cars aren't supposed to cost more than half your annual income. Half the country makes less than 36k a year. The domestic auto makers are trying to hide behind inflation for their price increases, but their record profits tell us they aren't just raising prices with cost. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children) 2024 Kia Forte $19,790 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/forte 2024 Hyundai Venue $19,800 Starting MSRP - https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/vehicles/venue 2024 Nissan Versa $16,130 Starting MSRP - https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/cars/versa-sedan.html 2024 Mitsubishi Mirage $16,695 Starting MSRP - https://www.mitsubishicars.com/cars-and-suvs/mirage 2023 Kia Rio $16,750 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/rio (There isn't a 2024 version as this model has been dropped) 2024 Kia Soul $19,990 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/soul Which of these cars that you listed are $15k? The Chevy Bolt EV is less than half the cars you listed when you look at the base price ($26,500) minus the Federal Tax Credit ($7,500). The original comment I replied to said that "there is not a single affordable EV" in the US and I listed 3 that are under the average cost for any new cars in the US. Then you claimed that EVs need to be $15k in order to reach mass adoption, even though there are no new cars available in the US at that price. You can argue that cars are priced too high, or the car companies are making too much money, but the fact is that for anyone in the market for a new car, there are EVs available in every new car price range. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) Oh I'm sorry the price isn't exact across different manufacturers and models? That's just ridiculous. And yes there's a reason the Bolt sold so well. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's ridiculous that the examples you gave don't back up the statement you made? Yeah, I agree. I also agree with my original statement that the Chevy Bolt is one of 3 affordable EVs currently available. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Cars that cost most of a year's income are not affordable. No amount of semantics is going to make that true. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 2 years ago (19 children) The Chevy Bolt and Nissan Leaf are both under $30k, and there's a Mini Cooper that's just barely over $30k. There's only 1 other car from Chevy that's cheaper than the Bolt, and only 2 models from Mini cheaper than their EV. Nissan seems to be a leader with cheap cars, with 6 cheaper models than the Leaf. When you add in the tax rebates for buying electric that reduces the price an additional $7500. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 19 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 16 points 2 years ago (11 children) Just 20k more to go to compete with what chinese drivers have access to. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee 8 points 2 years ago (10 children) Well yeah. We have safety laws. You cant build a car out of chinesium and have it pass US Safety tests. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago (8 children) You know whats safe? A smaller, cheaper engine with a lower top speed. I dont need hundreds of miles of range and 100mph top speed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (7 children) Well you need a strong engine to get up to speed in a decent amount of time, and to go up hills full loaded. You also need tall gears for fuel efficiency. Combined, it means almost every production car can go 100+ mph. Also range? Thats just a gas tank. A 10 gallon gas tank will take most small cars 300 miles, its not a lot. Why focus on range? Seems weird to me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago (3 children) Sorry im used to engines, we're talking about EV's. Thats something other countries have as an option, lower speed, lower range, more affordable vehicles. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee -2 points 2 years ago (2 children) Ah, so do we. Off highway vehicles. Few use them as a daily because why would you? A 10 year old used car is much better choice than anything new, if you want affordable, and you get the speed and range permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not off highway, street legal. Legal to drive on the 40mph roads we have in town. For climate purposes, gas price reasons, and fewer moving parts and maintenance involved, i want an electric vehicle. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago I couldn't agree more. For now, my options are electric scooters/bikes. Which are pretty great but don't have air conditioning! The US will continue to trail behind the rest of the world in this industry due to the greed and lobbying bribery of the auto companies. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) You need a 20 lb electric motor to have absolutely butt-kicking torque in an EV. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Plus a 1000 pound battery. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Yeah, the battery is gonna weigh a lot. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Yoddel_Hickory@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 years ago As if American cars had any reputation for reliability XD permalink fedilink source parent [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago (6 children) That's great. Half of America needs a 15k car. That's the magic number for Mass adoption. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de -3 points 2 years ago (5 children) And where are you going to find any new car in the US for $15k? The average cost of a new car in the US this year was over $40k, and there are several EV options available for practically anyone in the market for a new car. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (4 children) Kia Forte Hyundai Venue Nissan Versa Mitsubishi Mirage Kia Rio Kia Soul Cars aren't supposed to cost more than half your annual income. Half the country makes less than 36k a year. The domestic auto makers are trying to hide behind inflation for their price increases, but their record profits tell us they aren't just raising prices with cost. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children) 2024 Kia Forte $19,790 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/forte 2024 Hyundai Venue $19,800 Starting MSRP - https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/vehicles/venue 2024 Nissan Versa $16,130 Starting MSRP - https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/cars/versa-sedan.html 2024 Mitsubishi Mirage $16,695 Starting MSRP - https://www.mitsubishicars.com/cars-and-suvs/mirage 2023 Kia Rio $16,750 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/rio (There isn't a 2024 version as this model has been dropped) 2024 Kia Soul $19,990 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/soul Which of these cars that you listed are $15k? The Chevy Bolt EV is less than half the cars you listed when you look at the base price ($26,500) minus the Federal Tax Credit ($7,500). The original comment I replied to said that "there is not a single affordable EV" in the US and I listed 3 that are under the average cost for any new cars in the US. Then you claimed that EVs need to be $15k in order to reach mass adoption, even though there are no new cars available in the US at that price. You can argue that cars are priced too high, or the car companies are making too much money, but the fact is that for anyone in the market for a new car, there are EVs available in every new car price range. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) Oh I'm sorry the price isn't exact across different manufacturers and models? That's just ridiculous. And yes there's a reason the Bolt sold so well. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's ridiculous that the examples you gave don't back up the statement you made? Yeah, I agree. I also agree with my original statement that the Chevy Bolt is one of 3 affordable EVs currently available. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Cars that cost most of a year's income are not affordable. No amount of semantics is going to make that true. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] blazera@kbin.social 16 points 2 years ago (11 children) Just 20k more to go to compete with what chinese drivers have access to. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 11 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee 8 points 2 years ago (10 children) Well yeah. We have safety laws. You cant build a car out of chinesium and have it pass US Safety tests. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago (8 children) You know whats safe? A smaller, cheaper engine with a lower top speed. I dont need hundreds of miles of range and 100mph top speed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (7 children) Well you need a strong engine to get up to speed in a decent amount of time, and to go up hills full loaded. You also need tall gears for fuel efficiency. Combined, it means almost every production car can go 100+ mph. Also range? Thats just a gas tank. A 10 gallon gas tank will take most small cars 300 miles, its not a lot. Why focus on range? Seems weird to me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago (3 children) Sorry im used to engines, we're talking about EV's. Thats something other countries have as an option, lower speed, lower range, more affordable vehicles. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee -2 points 2 years ago (2 children) Ah, so do we. Off highway vehicles. Few use them as a daily because why would you? A 10 year old used car is much better choice than anything new, if you want affordable, and you get the speed and range permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not off highway, street legal. Legal to drive on the 40mph roads we have in town. For climate purposes, gas price reasons, and fewer moving parts and maintenance involved, i want an electric vehicle. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago I couldn't agree more. For now, my options are electric scooters/bikes. Which are pretty great but don't have air conditioning! The US will continue to trail behind the rest of the world in this industry due to the greed and lobbying bribery of the auto companies. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) You need a 20 lb electric motor to have absolutely butt-kicking torque in an EV. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Plus a 1000 pound battery. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Yeah, the battery is gonna weigh a lot. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Yoddel_Hickory@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 years ago As if American cars had any reputation for reliability XD permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee 8 points 2 years ago (10 children) Well yeah. We have safety laws. You cant build a car out of chinesium and have it pass US Safety tests. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 10 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago (8 children) You know whats safe? A smaller, cheaper engine with a lower top speed. I dont need hundreds of miles of range and 100mph top speed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (7 children) Well you need a strong engine to get up to speed in a decent amount of time, and to go up hills full loaded. You also need tall gears for fuel efficiency. Combined, it means almost every production car can go 100+ mph. Also range? Thats just a gas tank. A 10 gallon gas tank will take most small cars 300 miles, its not a lot. Why focus on range? Seems weird to me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago (3 children) Sorry im used to engines, we're talking about EV's. Thats something other countries have as an option, lower speed, lower range, more affordable vehicles. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee -2 points 2 years ago (2 children) Ah, so do we. Off highway vehicles. Few use them as a daily because why would you? A 10 year old used car is much better choice than anything new, if you want affordable, and you get the speed and range permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not off highway, street legal. Legal to drive on the 40mph roads we have in town. For climate purposes, gas price reasons, and fewer moving parts and maintenance involved, i want an electric vehicle. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago I couldn't agree more. For now, my options are electric scooters/bikes. Which are pretty great but don't have air conditioning! The US will continue to trail behind the rest of the world in this industry due to the greed and lobbying bribery of the auto companies. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) You need a 20 lb electric motor to have absolutely butt-kicking torque in an EV. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Plus a 1000 pound battery. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Yeah, the battery is gonna weigh a lot. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Yoddel_Hickory@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 years ago As if American cars had any reputation for reliability XD permalink fedilink source parent
[–] blazera@kbin.social 9 points 2 years ago (8 children) You know whats safe? A smaller, cheaper engine with a lower top speed. I dont need hundreds of miles of range and 100mph top speed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (7 children) Well you need a strong engine to get up to speed in a decent amount of time, and to go up hills full loaded. You also need tall gears for fuel efficiency. Combined, it means almost every production car can go 100+ mph. Also range? Thats just a gas tank. A 10 gallon gas tank will take most small cars 300 miles, its not a lot. Why focus on range? Seems weird to me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago (3 children) Sorry im used to engines, we're talking about EV's. Thats something other countries have as an option, lower speed, lower range, more affordable vehicles. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee -2 points 2 years ago (2 children) Ah, so do we. Off highway vehicles. Few use them as a daily because why would you? A 10 year old used car is much better choice than anything new, if you want affordable, and you get the speed and range permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not off highway, street legal. Legal to drive on the 40mph roads we have in town. For climate purposes, gas price reasons, and fewer moving parts and maintenance involved, i want an electric vehicle. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago I couldn't agree more. For now, my options are electric scooters/bikes. Which are pretty great but don't have air conditioning! The US will continue to trail behind the rest of the world in this industry due to the greed and lobbying bribery of the auto companies. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) You need a 20 lb electric motor to have absolutely butt-kicking torque in an EV. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Plus a 1000 pound battery. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Yeah, the battery is gonna weigh a lot. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago (7 children) Well you need a strong engine to get up to speed in a decent amount of time, and to go up hills full loaded. You also need tall gears for fuel efficiency. Combined, it means almost every production car can go 100+ mph. Also range? Thats just a gas tank. A 10 gallon gas tank will take most small cars 300 miles, its not a lot. Why focus on range? Seems weird to me. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 7 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago (3 children) Sorry im used to engines, we're talking about EV's. Thats something other countries have as an option, lower speed, lower range, more affordable vehicles. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee -2 points 2 years ago (2 children) Ah, so do we. Off highway vehicles. Few use them as a daily because why would you? A 10 year old used car is much better choice than anything new, if you want affordable, and you get the speed and range permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not off highway, street legal. Legal to drive on the 40mph roads we have in town. For climate purposes, gas price reasons, and fewer moving parts and maintenance involved, i want an electric vehicle. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago I couldn't agree more. For now, my options are electric scooters/bikes. Which are pretty great but don't have air conditioning! The US will continue to trail behind the rest of the world in this industry due to the greed and lobbying bribery of the auto companies. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) You need a 20 lb electric motor to have absolutely butt-kicking torque in an EV. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Plus a 1000 pound battery. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Yeah, the battery is gonna weigh a lot. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] blazera@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago (3 children) Sorry im used to engines, we're talking about EV's. Thats something other countries have as an option, lower speed, lower range, more affordable vehicles. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee -2 points 2 years ago (2 children) Ah, so do we. Off highway vehicles. Few use them as a daily because why would you? A 10 year old used car is much better choice than anything new, if you want affordable, and you get the speed and range permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not off highway, street legal. Legal to drive on the 40mph roads we have in town. For climate purposes, gas price reasons, and fewer moving parts and maintenance involved, i want an electric vehicle. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago I couldn't agree more. For now, my options are electric scooters/bikes. Which are pretty great but don't have air conditioning! The US will continue to trail behind the rest of the world in this industry due to the greed and lobbying bribery of the auto companies. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee -2 points 2 years ago (2 children) Ah, so do we. Off highway vehicles. Few use them as a daily because why would you? A 10 year old used car is much better choice than anything new, if you want affordable, and you get the speed and range permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] blazera@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not off highway, street legal. Legal to drive on the 40mph roads we have in town. For climate purposes, gas price reasons, and fewer moving parts and maintenance involved, i want an electric vehicle. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago I couldn't agree more. For now, my options are electric scooters/bikes. Which are pretty great but don't have air conditioning! The US will continue to trail behind the rest of the world in this industry due to the greed and lobbying bribery of the auto companies. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] blazera@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (1 child) Not off highway, street legal. Legal to drive on the 40mph roads we have in town. For climate purposes, gas price reasons, and fewer moving parts and maintenance involved, i want an electric vehicle. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago I couldn't agree more. For now, my options are electric scooters/bikes. Which are pretty great but don't have air conditioning! The US will continue to trail behind the rest of the world in this industry due to the greed and lobbying bribery of the auto companies. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 point 2 years ago I couldn't agree more. For now, my options are electric scooters/bikes. Which are pretty great but don't have air conditioning! The US will continue to trail behind the rest of the world in this industry due to the greed and lobbying bribery of the auto companies. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) You need a 20 lb electric motor to have absolutely butt-kicking torque in an EV. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Plus a 1000 pound battery. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Yeah, the battery is gonna weigh a lot. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Blamemeta@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago (1 child) Plus a 1000 pound battery. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Yeah, the battery is gonna weigh a lot. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Yeah, the battery is gonna weigh a lot. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Yoddel_Hickory@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 years ago As if American cars had any reputation for reliability XD permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago (6 children) That's great. Half of America needs a 15k car. That's the magic number for Mass adoption. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de -3 points 2 years ago (5 children) And where are you going to find any new car in the US for $15k? The average cost of a new car in the US this year was over $40k, and there are several EV options available for practically anyone in the market for a new car. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (4 children) Kia Forte Hyundai Venue Nissan Versa Mitsubishi Mirage Kia Rio Kia Soul Cars aren't supposed to cost more than half your annual income. Half the country makes less than 36k a year. The domestic auto makers are trying to hide behind inflation for their price increases, but their record profits tell us they aren't just raising prices with cost. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children) 2024 Kia Forte $19,790 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/forte 2024 Hyundai Venue $19,800 Starting MSRP - https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/vehicles/venue 2024 Nissan Versa $16,130 Starting MSRP - https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/cars/versa-sedan.html 2024 Mitsubishi Mirage $16,695 Starting MSRP - https://www.mitsubishicars.com/cars-and-suvs/mirage 2023 Kia Rio $16,750 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/rio (There isn't a 2024 version as this model has been dropped) 2024 Kia Soul $19,990 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/soul Which of these cars that you listed are $15k? The Chevy Bolt EV is less than half the cars you listed when you look at the base price ($26,500) minus the Federal Tax Credit ($7,500). The original comment I replied to said that "there is not a single affordable EV" in the US and I listed 3 that are under the average cost for any new cars in the US. Then you claimed that EVs need to be $15k in order to reach mass adoption, even though there are no new cars available in the US at that price. You can argue that cars are priced too high, or the car companies are making too much money, but the fact is that for anyone in the market for a new car, there are EVs available in every new car price range. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) Oh I'm sorry the price isn't exact across different manufacturers and models? That's just ridiculous. And yes there's a reason the Bolt sold so well. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's ridiculous that the examples you gave don't back up the statement you made? Yeah, I agree. I also agree with my original statement that the Chevy Bolt is one of 3 affordable EVs currently available. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Cars that cost most of a year's income are not affordable. No amount of semantics is going to make that true. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de -3 points 2 years ago (5 children) And where are you going to find any new car in the US for $15k? The average cost of a new car in the US this year was over $40k, and there are several EV options available for practically anyone in the market for a new car. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 5 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (4 children) Kia Forte Hyundai Venue Nissan Versa Mitsubishi Mirage Kia Rio Kia Soul Cars aren't supposed to cost more than half your annual income. Half the country makes less than 36k a year. The domestic auto makers are trying to hide behind inflation for their price increases, but their record profits tell us they aren't just raising prices with cost. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children) 2024 Kia Forte $19,790 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/forte 2024 Hyundai Venue $19,800 Starting MSRP - https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/vehicles/venue 2024 Nissan Versa $16,130 Starting MSRP - https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/cars/versa-sedan.html 2024 Mitsubishi Mirage $16,695 Starting MSRP - https://www.mitsubishicars.com/cars-and-suvs/mirage 2023 Kia Rio $16,750 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/rio (There isn't a 2024 version as this model has been dropped) 2024 Kia Soul $19,990 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/soul Which of these cars that you listed are $15k? The Chevy Bolt EV is less than half the cars you listed when you look at the base price ($26,500) minus the Federal Tax Credit ($7,500). The original comment I replied to said that "there is not a single affordable EV" in the US and I listed 3 that are under the average cost for any new cars in the US. Then you claimed that EVs need to be $15k in order to reach mass adoption, even though there are no new cars available in the US at that price. You can argue that cars are priced too high, or the car companies are making too much money, but the fact is that for anyone in the market for a new car, there are EVs available in every new car price range. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) Oh I'm sorry the price isn't exact across different manufacturers and models? That's just ridiculous. And yes there's a reason the Bolt sold so well. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's ridiculous that the examples you gave don't back up the statement you made? Yeah, I agree. I also agree with my original statement that the Chevy Bolt is one of 3 affordable EVs currently available. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Cars that cost most of a year's income are not affordable. No amount of semantics is going to make that true. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (4 children) Kia Forte Hyundai Venue Nissan Versa Mitsubishi Mirage Kia Rio Kia Soul Cars aren't supposed to cost more than half your annual income. Half the country makes less than 36k a year. The domestic auto makers are trying to hide behind inflation for their price increases, but their record profits tell us they aren't just raising prices with cost. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children) 2024 Kia Forte $19,790 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/forte 2024 Hyundai Venue $19,800 Starting MSRP - https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/vehicles/venue 2024 Nissan Versa $16,130 Starting MSRP - https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/cars/versa-sedan.html 2024 Mitsubishi Mirage $16,695 Starting MSRP - https://www.mitsubishicars.com/cars-and-suvs/mirage 2023 Kia Rio $16,750 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/rio (There isn't a 2024 version as this model has been dropped) 2024 Kia Soul $19,990 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/soul Which of these cars that you listed are $15k? The Chevy Bolt EV is less than half the cars you listed when you look at the base price ($26,500) minus the Federal Tax Credit ($7,500). The original comment I replied to said that "there is not a single affordable EV" in the US and I listed 3 that are under the average cost for any new cars in the US. Then you claimed that EVs need to be $15k in order to reach mass adoption, even though there are no new cars available in the US at that price. You can argue that cars are priced too high, or the car companies are making too much money, but the fact is that for anyone in the market for a new car, there are EVs available in every new car price range. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) Oh I'm sorry the price isn't exact across different manufacturers and models? That's just ridiculous. And yes there's a reason the Bolt sold so well. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's ridiculous that the examples you gave don't back up the statement you made? Yeah, I agree. I also agree with my original statement that the Chevy Bolt is one of 3 affordable EVs currently available. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Cars that cost most of a year's income are not affordable. No amount of semantics is going to make that true. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children) 2024 Kia Forte $19,790 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/forte 2024 Hyundai Venue $19,800 Starting MSRP - https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/vehicles/venue 2024 Nissan Versa $16,130 Starting MSRP - https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/cars/versa-sedan.html 2024 Mitsubishi Mirage $16,695 Starting MSRP - https://www.mitsubishicars.com/cars-and-suvs/mirage 2023 Kia Rio $16,750 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/rio (There isn't a 2024 version as this model has been dropped) 2024 Kia Soul $19,990 Starting MSRP - https://www.kia.com/us/en/soul Which of these cars that you listed are $15k? The Chevy Bolt EV is less than half the cars you listed when you look at the base price ($26,500) minus the Federal Tax Credit ($7,500). The original comment I replied to said that "there is not a single affordable EV" in the US and I listed 3 that are under the average cost for any new cars in the US. Then you claimed that EVs need to be $15k in order to reach mass adoption, even though there are no new cars available in the US at that price. You can argue that cars are priced too high, or the car companies are making too much money, but the fact is that for anyone in the market for a new car, there are EVs available in every new car price range. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) Oh I'm sorry the price isn't exact across different manufacturers and models? That's just ridiculous. And yes there's a reason the Bolt sold so well. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's ridiculous that the examples you gave don't back up the statement you made? Yeah, I agree. I also agree with my original statement that the Chevy Bolt is one of 3 affordable EVs currently available. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Cars that cost most of a year's income are not affordable. No amount of semantics is going to make that true. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (2 children) Oh I'm sorry the price isn't exact across different manufacturers and models? That's just ridiculous. And yes there's a reason the Bolt sold so well. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's ridiculous that the examples you gave don't back up the statement you made? Yeah, I agree. I also agree with my original statement that the Chevy Bolt is one of 3 affordable EVs currently available. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Cars that cost most of a year's income are not affordable. No amount of semantics is going to make that true. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) It's ridiculous that the examples you gave don't back up the statement you made? Yeah, I agree. I also agree with my original statement that the Chevy Bolt is one of 3 affordable EVs currently available. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Cars that cost most of a year's income are not affordable. No amount of semantics is going to make that true. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago Cars that cost most of a year's income are not affordable. No amount of semantics is going to make that true. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] metaStatic@kbin.social 18 points 2 years ago (4 children) If we start with an expensive sports car we will make enough money that it will eventually trickle down to affordable vehicles. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (3 children) Porsche does have an EV, and there's an EV mustang now (only $45k, which shocked me) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] helenslunch@feddit.nl 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Imo the mustang name should have been retired 20 years ago. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] helenslunch@feddit.nl 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 5 points 2 years ago (3 children) Porsche does have an EV, and there's an EV mustang now (only $45k, which shocked me) permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 3 child comments replies: [+] helenslunch@feddit.nl 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Imo the mustang name should have been retired 20 years ago. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] helenslunch@feddit.nl 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] helenslunch@feddit.nl 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Imo the mustang name should have been retired 20 years ago. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] helenslunch@feddit.nl 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] EatYouWell@lemmy.world 1 point 2 years ago (1 child) Imo the mustang name should have been retired 20 years ago. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 1 child comment replies: [+] helenslunch@feddit.nl 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] helenslunch@feddit.nl 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago* I think it is at least as much about maturity of the technology, and competition in the market. Obviously we all want better cheaper cleaner cars. That hasn't suddenly changed. permalink fedilink source parent