power_serge comments on So... rather than just cursing/condemning all Zionists, why do Ansarallah/"Houthis" curse/condemn all Jews instead?

[+] power_serge@lemmygrad.ml -9 points 2 years ago (7 children)

I never said ISIS represents all of Islam, my point is that Israel is like ISIS but worse because at least ISIS offers the option of conversion (which is because unlike Judaism, Islam gives that as an option). For people who hate both ISIS and Israel, the conclusion that Israel is worse is quite clear and a big part of that is the way the religion conducts itself when conducting conquest. That the natives cannot be integrated into your society and must be "removed".

If Christians were the ones in Israel, things would still be very terrible for the Palestinians because of the colonial nature (probably more similar to South Africa which had apartheid but less genocide of the natives) but it wouldn't be as terrible as it is now with Israel trying to exterminate the entire strip.

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[–] Shinhoshi@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 2 years ago (6 children)

but it wouldn’t be as terrible as it is now with Israel trying to exterminate the entire strip.

Major yikes. If you think it's about religion, explain the genocides the US committed against its own native populations.

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[–] power_serge@lemmygrad.ml -4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

I will reiterate.

When Jewish people say, "We will make this land purely Jewish", I read that as genocide.

Also, you clearly aren't understanding my point, I am simply answering the question of, why would the hate for Israel extend to a hatred of Jews and not stating a personal belief. Clearly, it is the US continuing it's imperialist policies but for a lot of people, the nature of Judaism and how it has to expand it's numbers and territory is a good reason to lump them in with Israel and the United States.

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[–] Shinhoshi@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

I read that as persecution.

This has to be a bit. In what world are these two not exactly the same? It sounds exactly the same as the genocide one to me.

If anything, Jewish people have the greater claim to persecution given the literal Holocaust had just happened.

(Edit: Please do not misconstrue this comment to be justifying Israel's actions.)

Edit 2: You decided to completely edit out the text of your previous comment where you claimed when Christian people do the same thing, it's only persecution.

Whatever you think about the original question, presenting the claim that things would be somehow better if it were Christians without qualification that you don't agree with those views is justifying the genocides Christians have done, including the actual Holocaust itself.

how it has to expand it’s numbers and territory

I don't think this is a belief of Judaism. If you're referring to the baby boom, that was by no means isolated to Jews in any way. Perhaps you're confusing it with Christianity, which actually does believe this as part of the faith?

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[–] power_serge@lemmygrad.ml -5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (3 children)

If anything, Jewish people have the greater claim to persecution given the literal Holocaust had just happened.

How would the Jewish people have a greater claim according to the Houthis who likely know very little about events in Europe or even care?

Again, I am reiterating how people there would have issue with Judaism as a religion and would curse the Jews and again, it's because of how Judaism is different from Islam and Christianity. Islam allows new adherents, in fact, most Houthis would probably at least admit their people weren't always Islamic. For them, it would appear at least at face value that Judaism is a religion that promotes genocides because when they take land, it necessitates the removal of the natives.

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[–] Shinhoshi@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 2 years ago* (2 children)

Since you revised your parent comment, I revised mine.

For them, it would appear at least at face value that Judaism is a religion that promotes genocides because when they take land, it necessitates the removal of the natives.

I could definitely see people falling for the Zionism = Judaism thing especially in the land controlled by Israel.

How would the Jewish people have a greater claim according to the Houthis who likely know very little about events in Europe or even care?

That said, a "greater claim" than who? I was speaking in context of your comment comparing Judaism and Christianity, and I still think even they would believe Jews had a greater claim to persecution than if the US military (or any other third party really) were to show up and started doing genocide purportedly because Jesus needs Christians in control of the Holy Land.

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[+] power_serge@lemmygrad.ml -7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

even they would believe Jews had a greater claim to persecution than if the US military were to show up and started doing genocide purportedly because Jesus needs Christians in control of the Holy Land.

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That is not the comparison I am making. The point I am trying to make is that a religion that does not welcome you as a believer is going to be more concerning to a person than a religion that does. A Houthi cannot become a Jew (for the most part). A Palestinian Muslim, even if their ancestors were Jewish 1000 years ago cannot become a Jew again (at least according to the way Israel has been conducting itself). And for those reason, it makes sense that Judaism itself is viewed with concern by the Houthis.

edit: To further explain this point at least how I imagine most people in the region would at least think about. When Islam came to that land, they converted the local community to Islam. But when these new people come in, they want to kill everyone? Why don't they just convert the locals again? For most people, the explanation would be Judaism as a religion.

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[–] QueerCommie@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 2 years ago

This is idealist analysis. It's not a religious conflict. Forced conversion is genocide. "Israel" is not being assimilationist because they are racist and settler colonial. They don't care about Judaism. Most Israelis are atheist and the state violates the Torah. They sterilized african jews. They killed Jewish Palestinians along with the Muslims.

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