this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2023
1290 points (83.0% liked)
Memes
45553 readers
889 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Communism's solution to homelessness is mass starvation.
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/document/cia-rdp84b00274r000300150009-5
do you believe Iraq had WMDs too?
I'd say that I'm rather anti communistic but one thing that has never happened in used-to-be communist country i have experience with is starvation.
Actually they solved starvation, built fcking appartments for everyone to live in and gave them to people for free. They also made sure every forgotten village had drinakble water, electricity , gas, shop, train station and bus stop.
Reason why people overthrown them was humans rights repression like taking away people's businesses to make them state companies. It was not poor the living conditions (for the time).
And also just homelessness. It's pretty amusing that people believe there are no homeless people in Russia or China. China in particular is amusing because they have massive empty apartment blocks, but they still have homeless people because the hukou caste system means they aren't allowed to live outside their birth city.
Its pretty amusing that people still believe Russia and China are communist. Next your going to tell me the Nazi's were socialist and North Korea is a Democratic Republic, just because it's in their name.
Ah, the classic "THOSE ARENT REAL COMMUNISTS" arguments. And Jeff Bezos isn't a real capitalist.
Typing it all in caps doesn't make it not true. Words have meanings, Russia and China both have private corporations run for profit. They do have some socialist policies, but they certainly do not have economic systems characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members.
If you keep having people tell you "those aren't real communists", then just maybe you should reevaluate your definition of Communism.
And if you need to incorporate market economics everytime you try to form a utopia, maybe you should reevaluate your definition of Communism.
Next you're gonna tell me Trump actually won the election. By your logic it must be true, people keep repeating it after all.
Saying "maybe you should reevaluate" =/= "must be true". People did reevaluate if Trump won the 2020 election (a bit too many times frankly), and every time it came up to be a false claim. As is the case with your definition of Communism.
Furthermore, I did not try to setup a Utopia, nor did I call Russia, China, or Communism in general a Utopia. So I'm kinda confused about why you even brought that up... Regardless, even if Russia and China did add market economies, that wouldn't change the definition of Communism, just the type of economies those countries have.
I think what you meant to say was "If countries that have tried to implement Communism consistently add Market Economics, then perhaps Communism is not a self-sufficient system, and as such it is not a comprehensive solution to the ills of Capitalism". Which again wouldn't change the definition of Communism, but would at least be a coherent argument.
Perhaps you need to change your definition of re-evaluate, and of... definition.
P.S. Just curious, do you ever get tired of misrepresenting the positions you are arguing against?
If its a response that is "classic" why don't you have a rebuttal?
Capitalism's solution to homelessness is mass starvation... in underdeveloped countries. With a side of bombs. All in the name of democracy
The USSR and China were pretty developed at the time of their mass starvations.
US. Samesies. Forced starvation during the trail of tears.
We can play the 'Whataboutthis" game if you want.
That was an intentional genocide. Do you think that is somehow exclusive to capitalism?
Nearly all famines are cause by war, natural disasters, or intentional ethnic cleansing.
There are only a handful of examples in which famine was caused by poor economic decisions and nearly all of the modern examples were by communist governments trying to dictate the price of food.
I'm not even advocating for capitalism. But I'm also not going to sit here and ignore history. China, even today, is dependent on food imports from capitalist countries.
People keep denying it, trying to bury it, but it’s historical fact.
If any bad thing that happens under a nominally communist system is the fault of communism, then any bad thing that happens in a nominally capitalist system must be the fault of capitalism, right? Capitalism has an awful lot of slavery, genocide, apartheid, coloialism, wars of choice, and other evils to answer for, then.
Yes. Concentration of power is bad no matter the economic system.
Yes, all of the evils of capitalism are constantly commented on. This isn't the CNN comments section.
All typed on a device and shared over a network designed and facilitated by capitalism.
It would be a whole lot easier for me to take you seriously if you actually lived what you preach.
You are very intelligent.
Thank you. I was educated in government run schools. Yay communism!
The internet wasn't designed by Capitalism. It was a government funded program. It would be a lot easier for me to take you seriously of you didn't make shit up to prop up an ideology.
And it was improved at an incredible pace by private industry.
So the undersea cables, radio towers, satellites that are the very lifeblood of the Internet were the result of communism? Cause last I checked telecommunication networks and infrastructure are one of the most glaring examples of capitalism doing what it does best. The resources and will were all motivated by capitalism. If not for capitalism the Internet would have stayed a niche government program and not gained worldwide adoption.
First off, just because something is developed in the public sector does not make it Communist. If you don't know what words mean, don't use them please. I don't have time to go over definitions.
Secondly, the ground work for undersea cables, radio towers and satellites were indeed a direct result of work and funding from the public sector. The private sector wanted nothing to do with the internet until the mid 90's when enough work had been done that it was deemed "profitable".
A better example of what Capitalism does best would be adding advertisements to the internet, or the fact that Americans pay more per megabit than any European country on average.
What? The early Internet underseas cables were laid down for phones, mostly by private companies.
Fair point, the majority was laid by private companies, but the research for modern fiber optic cables was done at publicly funded universities.
This is not a valid argument ecause everything surrounding us is designed and facilitated by capitalism, and certainly all our electronics, there's no such thing as computers independent from capitalism. There weren't even in the soviet union. So it's not possible for this anon to actually live what they preach unless they went full anarcho-primitivism.
Not that it would matter anyway, because you're allowed to criticize a system that you participate in.
So you're saying capitalism isn't the pure evil it's portrayed as here?
Nothing here is portraying capitalism as pure evil, it's highlighting a problem that we currently have as a society. I find it really weird how eager you are to argue while not really having a point to make.
Completely false. The implication of this post (and most posts here) is capitalism=bad and communism=good. Capitalism certainly has its faults, but comparing it to communism and portraying communism as the shining beacon on the hill is just laughable. Someone else here said it better than I ever could, "Communism's solution to homelessness is mass starvation". I just find it ridiculous that the very system which allows people the resources to sit around wasting time online is the system they constantly rail against.
Answer me this, if this post ISN'T portraying capitalism as pure evil, but is instead simply highlighting a problem we have as a society, then why do I never see similar posts highlighting problems communist societies face? I only ever see communism being defended and/or held up as THE standard by which we should all strive.
What a convenient way for you to deflect any opinion you disagree with, "you criticize society yet you participate in it"
It is a historical fact that communist countries typically go through one last famine on their way to ending periodic famines in the country forever, and sometimes they're worse than normal due to the kinks being ironed out and social unrest.
How is that not a valid critique? I despise Apple as a company. As a result I refuse to purchase any of their products or use any of their services. To this day I have never purchased a single Apple product. I do this because I have conviction and standards.
1st world communists like to denigrate capitalism, yet live comfortable lives because of it. That shows zero conviction or standards.
That's the fascist solution to this problem. Don't worry, capitalism is considering it.