@masquenox I agree apart from the bit about allowing. We literally can't physically stop them. They will decide "security" issues whether we want them to or not. That's my point.

It's not just because of their military might. In the 1980s, France carried out a terror attack in my country which killed two people. We actually caught the terrorists but our "allies" the UK, EU and US told us that unless we let them go (we had wanted to give them a trial and imprisonment) we would no longer be able to trade with those countries and faced economic ruin.

If we had no government able to withstand them, it would be better to be in dialogue with the cartels than not - and good to have a space where they could dialogue with each other, too.

Bodies like the UNFP and UNHCR are valuable. Discussion is valuable. Even with the security council it's better that the world at least express what we want, where each other can see it, even if it's inevitably vetoed by US or Russia or China.