▲ 229 ▼ US intelligence warned of the potential for violence days before Hamas attack | CNN Politics (www.cnn.com) submitted 2 years ago by YoBuckStopsHere@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world 36 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] Ghyste@sh.itjust.works 71 points 2 years ago (3 children) Israel wanted this to happen. The US wasn't the only warning they got. And the civilians are the ones who suffer. permalink fedilink source hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] fubo@lemmy.world 57 points 2 years ago* (2 children) Israel No, the Netanyahu regime wanted it to happen. We hold leaders responsible for their own decisions, rather than blaming a nationality. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Why9@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago* (3 children) I agree with you. I do. But where the hell does that logic go when it's not American political allies in the firing line? When Saddam allegedly had WMDs and Al-Qaida did 9/11, why were all Muslims everywhere suddenly terrorists? When COVID was allegedly sourced from a lab in China, why were all Chinese people being targeted, attacked and killed on US streets? Now that we're talking about Israel, everyone's suddenly so protective of exactly who the fingers should be pointed at. Saddam never did have WMDs. The upper echelons of Saudi Arabia were behind 911. There's no proof that COVID came from a lab in China, but those generalisations are often justified, because "look at how many they've killed!". I agree with you, that it really is Netenyahu's regime that wants this. There are many, many Israeli's all over the world who are condemning Israel's actions in this war, in much the same way that Muslims have spoken out against terrorism for years, and Chinese people called for the hate crimes to cease. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] fubo@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago* why were all Muslims everywhere suddenly terrorists? They weren't. The people who said they were, were being shitty people. why were all Chinese people being targeted, attacked and killed on US streets? This was actually really rare, and while it was terrible where it happened, it's a mistake to pretend that it was at all common, typical, or accepted. As an analogy that may be even more contentious: Rape happens. It's bad. When it does, it's usually a man raping a woman. But it's a mistake to say that all men rape all women; and anyone saying that men are all rapists is expressing their own trauma, not the truth. People are real. Nations and other interest groups are kinda fake. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Reality_Suit@lemmy.one 3 points 2 years ago Because of ignorant hateful people who exist in every part of the world. Remember, there were a lot of Americans against the war. Same fucking racism exists everywhere. How many countries are run by the native population? The problem is the inbred old wealth. The few groups of people across the world convincing people who are not wealthy that the poor are the problem. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 1 point 2 years ago Information is a lot easier to come by nowadays. When Saddam allegedly had WMDs and Al-Qaida did 9/11, most people were still getting newspapers and watching the evening news on TV. If you wanted to hear viewpoints outside of the MSM you had to really dig for them. permalink fedilink source parent [–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (2 children) You might have a point if the majority of Israelis didn't keep voting for the fucker. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] fubo@lemmy.world 48 points 2 years ago (4 children) Dude. My country elected Donald Trump, but that doesn't make me a Cheeto. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] PoastRotato@lemmy.world 24 points 2 years ago (2 children) This is a valid point, but to be fair, the majority of Americans didn't vote for Donald Trump permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] paintbucketholder@lemmy.world 30 points 2 years ago And only 23 percent of Israelis voting in the last elections voted for Netanyahu. That's only half as much as Trump got in the popular vote in 2016. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mriguy@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago More importantly, more voters who actually voted voted for the other candidate. permalink fedilink source parent [–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) I said "keep voting", the majority see nothing wrong with Bibi's treatment of the Palestinians, although they'll be calling for blood after his failure to keep them safe. The US kicked the tires on a Trump presidency and decided one term was more than enough. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 years ago Actually, we impeached him twice because of how bad he was. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Uranium3006@kbin.social 8 points 2 years ago* I mean to be fair a majority of Americans never elected Donald Trump but because some people votes literally matter more than others he still won the election permalink fedilink source parent [–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) Your country has been a long time ally and supporter of Israel. Almost all voters consistently choose parties which support this. It's one of the justifications Bin Laden gave for 9/11. I know this is controversial in some parts of the fediverse, but I don't agree with groups like Al Qaeda. I find it shocking how often you'll read comments echoing that logic, and suggesting that civilians deserve to die for the crimes of their government or leader, simply because they were born on the wrong side of a border. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] TimeSquirrel@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 11 points 2 years ago* (1 child) 23.41% of the electorate voted for Likud in the last election. The right wing bloc led by Netenyahu did not win a majority of votes in the election either. In part due to a rule change, a few smaller anti-Netenyahu parties didn't gain enough votes to meet the electoral threshold, which is why Netenyahu's bloc gained a majority in the Knesset despite gaining less than 50% of the vote. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Israelis have been voting for increasingly far right politicians for years. The plain truth is that many of them are extremely comfortable with their government's brutal treatment of the Palestinians. I'm certainly not attacking every Israeli voter, many don't support their countries' policies but enough do for it to continue. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 7 points 2 years ago* You said that a majority of Israelis voted for Netenyahu. This is not true. The plain truth is that many of them are extremely comfortable with their government’s brutal treatment of the Palestinians. Earlier today I decided to read some opinion pieces in Haareetz. I kept reading comments similar to yours, and was wondering what actual Israelis think. Hareetz is a paper of record and luckily also available in English. I'll copy paste a few excerpts I found interesting. Hope you do to. These were human beings whom Israel dispossessed and expelled, whom it conquered again in their land of refuge and then turned into animals in a cage. They’ve experienced indiscriminate bombardments before, but now the worst of all is ahead of them. Israel has already announced that all the restraints it supposedly used in previous attacks will be lifted this time. Yes, hundreds of Gazans committed atrocious crimes, an outgrowth of 17 years of blockade and 75 years of suffering, with a bloody past and no present or future. But not all of a Gaza is to blame. This: Consequently, this needs to be said: Israel has held millions of people under a brutal blockade for more than 15 years with the support of the entire Western world. That is inhumane and inconceivable, and every solution to this bloody conflict ultimately includes respecting the rights of all people, both in Gaza and Sderot, to live with security and human dignity. And that begins with respecting the most basic rules as set down in the international laws of war, which are designed to reduce the harm to civilians. Or this: Ironically, those who cheer Hamas's deeds, believing they're advancing the Palestinian agenda, are inadvertently supporting Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's long-term strategy: the existence of Hamas ensures there will be no Palestinian state. More so, it eliminates any chance of dialogue, especially with Palestinians and Israelis already committed to end the occupation. These are dark times: the fear of a catastrophe waiting to unfold. Israelis still don’t know the fate of their loved ones, everyday Palestinians are trying to survive under an all-out Israeli attack, the Israeli government and Hamas, both corrupt and bloodthirsty permalink fedilink source parent [–] expected_crayon@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago Article makes it sound like they expected just the typical barrage of rockets rather than the invasion that occurred. I’m not convinced this is evidence Israel wanted the attack - with the Iron Dome they likely had sufficient protections against rockets. Neither this nor the reported Egyptian warning appear to have provided details to make one expect what was essentially a ground invasion. permalink fedilink source parent [+] BlinkerFluid@lemmy.one -7 points 2 years ago (1 child) Works out well for the US and their military contractors. I guess it was just another bit of good business in the capitalist haven of America. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] PugJesus@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago we literally warn them "Clearly the US wanted this" We have enough sins in our past of intentionally not warning governments, and enough in our present of mealy-mouthed "Oh, well, Israel is just defending itself" without having to add false charges to the pile. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] fubo@lemmy.world 57 points 2 years ago* (2 children) Israel No, the Netanyahu regime wanted it to happen. We hold leaders responsible for their own decisions, rather than blaming a nationality. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] Why9@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago* (3 children) I agree with you. I do. But where the hell does that logic go when it's not American political allies in the firing line? When Saddam allegedly had WMDs and Al-Qaida did 9/11, why were all Muslims everywhere suddenly terrorists? When COVID was allegedly sourced from a lab in China, why were all Chinese people being targeted, attacked and killed on US streets? Now that we're talking about Israel, everyone's suddenly so protective of exactly who the fingers should be pointed at. Saddam never did have WMDs. The upper echelons of Saudi Arabia were behind 911. There's no proof that COVID came from a lab in China, but those generalisations are often justified, because "look at how many they've killed!". I agree with you, that it really is Netenyahu's regime that wants this. There are many, many Israeli's all over the world who are condemning Israel's actions in this war, in much the same way that Muslims have spoken out against terrorism for years, and Chinese people called for the hate crimes to cease. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] fubo@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago* why were all Muslims everywhere suddenly terrorists? They weren't. The people who said they were, were being shitty people. why were all Chinese people being targeted, attacked and killed on US streets? This was actually really rare, and while it was terrible where it happened, it's a mistake to pretend that it was at all common, typical, or accepted. As an analogy that may be even more contentious: Rape happens. It's bad. When it does, it's usually a man raping a woman. But it's a mistake to say that all men rape all women; and anyone saying that men are all rapists is expressing their own trauma, not the truth. People are real. Nations and other interest groups are kinda fake. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Reality_Suit@lemmy.one 3 points 2 years ago Because of ignorant hateful people who exist in every part of the world. Remember, there were a lot of Americans against the war. Same fucking racism exists everywhere. How many countries are run by the native population? The problem is the inbred old wealth. The few groups of people across the world convincing people who are not wealthy that the poor are the problem. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 1 point 2 years ago Information is a lot easier to come by nowadays. When Saddam allegedly had WMDs and Al-Qaida did 9/11, most people were still getting newspapers and watching the evening news on TV. If you wanted to hear viewpoints outside of the MSM you had to really dig for them. permalink fedilink source parent [–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (2 children) You might have a point if the majority of Israelis didn't keep voting for the fucker. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] fubo@lemmy.world 48 points 2 years ago (4 children) Dude. My country elected Donald Trump, but that doesn't make me a Cheeto. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] PoastRotato@lemmy.world 24 points 2 years ago (2 children) This is a valid point, but to be fair, the majority of Americans didn't vote for Donald Trump permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] paintbucketholder@lemmy.world 30 points 2 years ago And only 23 percent of Israelis voting in the last elections voted for Netanyahu. That's only half as much as Trump got in the popular vote in 2016. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mriguy@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago More importantly, more voters who actually voted voted for the other candidate. permalink fedilink source parent [–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) I said "keep voting", the majority see nothing wrong with Bibi's treatment of the Palestinians, although they'll be calling for blood after his failure to keep them safe. The US kicked the tires on a Trump presidency and decided one term was more than enough. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 years ago Actually, we impeached him twice because of how bad he was. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Uranium3006@kbin.social 8 points 2 years ago* I mean to be fair a majority of Americans never elected Donald Trump but because some people votes literally matter more than others he still won the election permalink fedilink source parent [–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) Your country has been a long time ally and supporter of Israel. Almost all voters consistently choose parties which support this. It's one of the justifications Bin Laden gave for 9/11. I know this is controversial in some parts of the fediverse, but I don't agree with groups like Al Qaeda. I find it shocking how often you'll read comments echoing that logic, and suggesting that civilians deserve to die for the crimes of their government or leader, simply because they were born on the wrong side of a border. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] TimeSquirrel@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 11 points 2 years ago* (1 child) 23.41% of the electorate voted for Likud in the last election. The right wing bloc led by Netenyahu did not win a majority of votes in the election either. In part due to a rule change, a few smaller anti-Netenyahu parties didn't gain enough votes to meet the electoral threshold, which is why Netenyahu's bloc gained a majority in the Knesset despite gaining less than 50% of the vote. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Israelis have been voting for increasingly far right politicians for years. The plain truth is that many of them are extremely comfortable with their government's brutal treatment of the Palestinians. I'm certainly not attacking every Israeli voter, many don't support their countries' policies but enough do for it to continue. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 7 points 2 years ago* You said that a majority of Israelis voted for Netenyahu. This is not true. The plain truth is that many of them are extremely comfortable with their government’s brutal treatment of the Palestinians. Earlier today I decided to read some opinion pieces in Haareetz. I kept reading comments similar to yours, and was wondering what actual Israelis think. Hareetz is a paper of record and luckily also available in English. I'll copy paste a few excerpts I found interesting. Hope you do to. These were human beings whom Israel dispossessed and expelled, whom it conquered again in their land of refuge and then turned into animals in a cage. They’ve experienced indiscriminate bombardments before, but now the worst of all is ahead of them. Israel has already announced that all the restraints it supposedly used in previous attacks will be lifted this time. Yes, hundreds of Gazans committed atrocious crimes, an outgrowth of 17 years of blockade and 75 years of suffering, with a bloody past and no present or future. But not all of a Gaza is to blame. This: Consequently, this needs to be said: Israel has held millions of people under a brutal blockade for more than 15 years with the support of the entire Western world. That is inhumane and inconceivable, and every solution to this bloody conflict ultimately includes respecting the rights of all people, both in Gaza and Sderot, to live with security and human dignity. And that begins with respecting the most basic rules as set down in the international laws of war, which are designed to reduce the harm to civilians. Or this: Ironically, those who cheer Hamas's deeds, believing they're advancing the Palestinian agenda, are inadvertently supporting Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's long-term strategy: the existence of Hamas ensures there will be no Palestinian state. More so, it eliminates any chance of dialogue, especially with Palestinians and Israelis already committed to end the occupation. These are dark times: the fear of a catastrophe waiting to unfold. Israelis still don’t know the fate of their loved ones, everyday Palestinians are trying to survive under an all-out Israeli attack, the Israeli government and Hamas, both corrupt and bloodthirsty permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Why9@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago* (3 children) I agree with you. I do. But where the hell does that logic go when it's not American political allies in the firing line? When Saddam allegedly had WMDs and Al-Qaida did 9/11, why were all Muslims everywhere suddenly terrorists? When COVID was allegedly sourced from a lab in China, why were all Chinese people being targeted, attacked and killed on US streets? Now that we're talking about Israel, everyone's suddenly so protective of exactly who the fingers should be pointed at. Saddam never did have WMDs. The upper echelons of Saudi Arabia were behind 911. There's no proof that COVID came from a lab in China, but those generalisations are often justified, because "look at how many they've killed!". I agree with you, that it really is Netenyahu's regime that wants this. There are many, many Israeli's all over the world who are condemning Israel's actions in this war, in much the same way that Muslims have spoken out against terrorism for years, and Chinese people called for the hate crimes to cease. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] fubo@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago* why were all Muslims everywhere suddenly terrorists? They weren't. The people who said they were, were being shitty people. why were all Chinese people being targeted, attacked and killed on US streets? This was actually really rare, and while it was terrible where it happened, it's a mistake to pretend that it was at all common, typical, or accepted. As an analogy that may be even more contentious: Rape happens. It's bad. When it does, it's usually a man raping a woman. But it's a mistake to say that all men rape all women; and anyone saying that men are all rapists is expressing their own trauma, not the truth. People are real. Nations and other interest groups are kinda fake. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Reality_Suit@lemmy.one 3 points 2 years ago Because of ignorant hateful people who exist in every part of the world. Remember, there were a lot of Americans against the war. Same fucking racism exists everywhere. How many countries are run by the native population? The problem is the inbred old wealth. The few groups of people across the world convincing people who are not wealthy that the poor are the problem. permalink fedilink source parent [–] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 1 point 2 years ago Information is a lot easier to come by nowadays. When Saddam allegedly had WMDs and Al-Qaida did 9/11, most people were still getting newspapers and watching the evening news on TV. If you wanted to hear viewpoints outside of the MSM you had to really dig for them. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] fubo@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago* why were all Muslims everywhere suddenly terrorists? They weren't. The people who said they were, were being shitty people. why were all Chinese people being targeted, attacked and killed on US streets? This was actually really rare, and while it was terrible where it happened, it's a mistake to pretend that it was at all common, typical, or accepted. As an analogy that may be even more contentious: Rape happens. It's bad. When it does, it's usually a man raping a woman. But it's a mistake to say that all men rape all women; and anyone saying that men are all rapists is expressing their own trauma, not the truth. People are real. Nations and other interest groups are kinda fake. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Reality_Suit@lemmy.one 3 points 2 years ago Because of ignorant hateful people who exist in every part of the world. Remember, there were a lot of Americans against the war. Same fucking racism exists everywhere. How many countries are run by the native population? The problem is the inbred old wealth. The few groups of people across the world convincing people who are not wealthy that the poor are the problem. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 1 point 2 years ago Information is a lot easier to come by nowadays. When Saddam allegedly had WMDs and Al-Qaida did 9/11, most people were still getting newspapers and watching the evening news on TV. If you wanted to hear viewpoints outside of the MSM you had to really dig for them. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (2 children) You might have a point if the majority of Israelis didn't keep voting for the fucker. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] fubo@lemmy.world 48 points 2 years ago (4 children) Dude. My country elected Donald Trump, but that doesn't make me a Cheeto. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] PoastRotato@lemmy.world 24 points 2 years ago (2 children) This is a valid point, but to be fair, the majority of Americans didn't vote for Donald Trump permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] paintbucketholder@lemmy.world 30 points 2 years ago And only 23 percent of Israelis voting in the last elections voted for Netanyahu. That's only half as much as Trump got in the popular vote in 2016. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mriguy@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago More importantly, more voters who actually voted voted for the other candidate. permalink fedilink source parent [–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) I said "keep voting", the majority see nothing wrong with Bibi's treatment of the Palestinians, although they'll be calling for blood after his failure to keep them safe. The US kicked the tires on a Trump presidency and decided one term was more than enough. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 years ago Actually, we impeached him twice because of how bad he was. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Uranium3006@kbin.social 8 points 2 years ago* I mean to be fair a majority of Americans never elected Donald Trump but because some people votes literally matter more than others he still won the election permalink fedilink source parent [–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) Your country has been a long time ally and supporter of Israel. Almost all voters consistently choose parties which support this. It's one of the justifications Bin Laden gave for 9/11. I know this is controversial in some parts of the fediverse, but I don't agree with groups like Al Qaeda. I find it shocking how often you'll read comments echoing that logic, and suggesting that civilians deserve to die for the crimes of their government or leader, simply because they were born on the wrong side of a border. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] TimeSquirrel@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 11 points 2 years ago* (1 child) 23.41% of the electorate voted for Likud in the last election. The right wing bloc led by Netenyahu did not win a majority of votes in the election either. In part due to a rule change, a few smaller anti-Netenyahu parties didn't gain enough votes to meet the electoral threshold, which is why Netenyahu's bloc gained a majority in the Knesset despite gaining less than 50% of the vote. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Israelis have been voting for increasingly far right politicians for years. The plain truth is that many of them are extremely comfortable with their government's brutal treatment of the Palestinians. I'm certainly not attacking every Israeli voter, many don't support their countries' policies but enough do for it to continue. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 7 points 2 years ago* You said that a majority of Israelis voted for Netenyahu. This is not true. The plain truth is that many of them are extremely comfortable with their government’s brutal treatment of the Palestinians. Earlier today I decided to read some opinion pieces in Haareetz. I kept reading comments similar to yours, and was wondering what actual Israelis think. Hareetz is a paper of record and luckily also available in English. I'll copy paste a few excerpts I found interesting. Hope you do to. These were human beings whom Israel dispossessed and expelled, whom it conquered again in their land of refuge and then turned into animals in a cage. They’ve experienced indiscriminate bombardments before, but now the worst of all is ahead of them. Israel has already announced that all the restraints it supposedly used in previous attacks will be lifted this time. Yes, hundreds of Gazans committed atrocious crimes, an outgrowth of 17 years of blockade and 75 years of suffering, with a bloody past and no present or future. But not all of a Gaza is to blame. This: Consequently, this needs to be said: Israel has held millions of people under a brutal blockade for more than 15 years with the support of the entire Western world. That is inhumane and inconceivable, and every solution to this bloody conflict ultimately includes respecting the rights of all people, both in Gaza and Sderot, to live with security and human dignity. And that begins with respecting the most basic rules as set down in the international laws of war, which are designed to reduce the harm to civilians. Or this: Ironically, those who cheer Hamas's deeds, believing they're advancing the Palestinian agenda, are inadvertently supporting Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's long-term strategy: the existence of Hamas ensures there will be no Palestinian state. More so, it eliminates any chance of dialogue, especially with Palestinians and Israelis already committed to end the occupation. These are dark times: the fear of a catastrophe waiting to unfold. Israelis still don’t know the fate of their loved ones, everyday Palestinians are trying to survive under an all-out Israeli attack, the Israeli government and Hamas, both corrupt and bloodthirsty permalink fedilink source parent
[–] fubo@lemmy.world 48 points 2 years ago (4 children) Dude. My country elected Donald Trump, but that doesn't make me a Cheeto. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 8 child comments replies: [–] PoastRotato@lemmy.world 24 points 2 years ago (2 children) This is a valid point, but to be fair, the majority of Americans didn't vote for Donald Trump permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] paintbucketholder@lemmy.world 30 points 2 years ago And only 23 percent of Israelis voting in the last elections voted for Netanyahu. That's only half as much as Trump got in the popular vote in 2016. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mriguy@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago More importantly, more voters who actually voted voted for the other candidate. permalink fedilink source parent [–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) I said "keep voting", the majority see nothing wrong with Bibi's treatment of the Palestinians, although they'll be calling for blood after his failure to keep them safe. The US kicked the tires on a Trump presidency and decided one term was more than enough. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 years ago Actually, we impeached him twice because of how bad he was. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Uranium3006@kbin.social 8 points 2 years ago* I mean to be fair a majority of Americans never elected Donald Trump but because some people votes literally matter more than others he still won the election permalink fedilink source parent [–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) Your country has been a long time ally and supporter of Israel. Almost all voters consistently choose parties which support this. It's one of the justifications Bin Laden gave for 9/11. I know this is controversial in some parts of the fediverse, but I don't agree with groups like Al Qaeda. I find it shocking how often you'll read comments echoing that logic, and suggesting that civilians deserve to die for the crimes of their government or leader, simply because they were born on the wrong side of a border. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] TimeSquirrel@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PoastRotato@lemmy.world 24 points 2 years ago (2 children) This is a valid point, but to be fair, the majority of Americans didn't vote for Donald Trump permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] paintbucketholder@lemmy.world 30 points 2 years ago And only 23 percent of Israelis voting in the last elections voted for Netanyahu. That's only half as much as Trump got in the popular vote in 2016. permalink fedilink source parent [–] mriguy@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago More importantly, more voters who actually voted voted for the other candidate. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] paintbucketholder@lemmy.world 30 points 2 years ago And only 23 percent of Israelis voting in the last elections voted for Netanyahu. That's only half as much as Trump got in the popular vote in 2016. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] mriguy@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago More importantly, more voters who actually voted voted for the other candidate. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 9 points 2 years ago (1 child) I said "keep voting", the majority see nothing wrong with Bibi's treatment of the Palestinians, although they'll be calling for blood after his failure to keep them safe. The US kicked the tires on a Trump presidency and decided one term was more than enough. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 years ago Actually, we impeached him twice because of how bad he was. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 2 years ago Actually, we impeached him twice because of how bad he was. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Uranium3006@kbin.social 8 points 2 years ago* I mean to be fair a majority of Americans never elected Donald Trump but because some people votes literally matter more than others he still won the election permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 6 points 2 years ago (1 child) Your country has been a long time ally and supporter of Israel. Almost all voters consistently choose parties which support this. It's one of the justifications Bin Laden gave for 9/11. I know this is controversial in some parts of the fediverse, but I don't agree with groups like Al Qaeda. I find it shocking how often you'll read comments echoing that logic, and suggesting that civilians deserve to die for the crimes of their government or leader, simply because they were born on the wrong side of a border. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] TimeSquirrel@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[+] TimeSquirrel@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 11 points 2 years ago* (1 child) 23.41% of the electorate voted for Likud in the last election. The right wing bloc led by Netenyahu did not win a majority of votes in the election either. In part due to a rule change, a few smaller anti-Netenyahu parties didn't gain enough votes to meet the electoral threshold, which is why Netenyahu's bloc gained a majority in the Knesset despite gaining less than 50% of the vote. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Israelis have been voting for increasingly far right politicians for years. The plain truth is that many of them are extremely comfortable with their government's brutal treatment of the Palestinians. I'm certainly not attacking every Israeli voter, many don't support their countries' policies but enough do for it to continue. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 7 points 2 years ago* You said that a majority of Israelis voted for Netenyahu. This is not true. The plain truth is that many of them are extremely comfortable with their government’s brutal treatment of the Palestinians. Earlier today I decided to read some opinion pieces in Haareetz. I kept reading comments similar to yours, and was wondering what actual Israelis think. Hareetz is a paper of record and luckily also available in English. I'll copy paste a few excerpts I found interesting. Hope you do to. These were human beings whom Israel dispossessed and expelled, whom it conquered again in their land of refuge and then turned into animals in a cage. They’ve experienced indiscriminate bombardments before, but now the worst of all is ahead of them. Israel has already announced that all the restraints it supposedly used in previous attacks will be lifted this time. Yes, hundreds of Gazans committed atrocious crimes, an outgrowth of 17 years of blockade and 75 years of suffering, with a bloody past and no present or future. But not all of a Gaza is to blame. This: Consequently, this needs to be said: Israel has held millions of people under a brutal blockade for more than 15 years with the support of the entire Western world. That is inhumane and inconceivable, and every solution to this bloody conflict ultimately includes respecting the rights of all people, both in Gaza and Sderot, to live with security and human dignity. And that begins with respecting the most basic rules as set down in the international laws of war, which are designed to reduce the harm to civilians. Or this: Ironically, those who cheer Hamas's deeds, believing they're advancing the Palestinian agenda, are inadvertently supporting Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's long-term strategy: the existence of Hamas ensures there will be no Palestinian state. More so, it eliminates any chance of dialogue, especially with Palestinians and Israelis already committed to end the occupation. These are dark times: the fear of a catastrophe waiting to unfold. Israelis still don’t know the fate of their loved ones, everyday Palestinians are trying to survive under an all-out Israeli attack, the Israeli government and Hamas, both corrupt and bloodthirsty permalink fedilink source parent
[–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (1 child) Israelis have been voting for increasingly far right politicians for years. The plain truth is that many of them are extremely comfortable with their government's brutal treatment of the Palestinians. I'm certainly not attacking every Israeli voter, many don't support their countries' policies but enough do for it to continue. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 7 points 2 years ago* You said that a majority of Israelis voted for Netenyahu. This is not true. The plain truth is that many of them are extremely comfortable with their government’s brutal treatment of the Palestinians. Earlier today I decided to read some opinion pieces in Haareetz. I kept reading comments similar to yours, and was wondering what actual Israelis think. Hareetz is a paper of record and luckily also available in English. I'll copy paste a few excerpts I found interesting. Hope you do to. These were human beings whom Israel dispossessed and expelled, whom it conquered again in their land of refuge and then turned into animals in a cage. They’ve experienced indiscriminate bombardments before, but now the worst of all is ahead of them. Israel has already announced that all the restraints it supposedly used in previous attacks will be lifted this time. Yes, hundreds of Gazans committed atrocious crimes, an outgrowth of 17 years of blockade and 75 years of suffering, with a bloody past and no present or future. But not all of a Gaza is to blame. This: Consequently, this needs to be said: Israel has held millions of people under a brutal blockade for more than 15 years with the support of the entire Western world. That is inhumane and inconceivable, and every solution to this bloody conflict ultimately includes respecting the rights of all people, both in Gaza and Sderot, to live with security and human dignity. And that begins with respecting the most basic rules as set down in the international laws of war, which are designed to reduce the harm to civilians. Or this: Ironically, those who cheer Hamas's deeds, believing they're advancing the Palestinian agenda, are inadvertently supporting Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's long-term strategy: the existence of Hamas ensures there will be no Palestinian state. More so, it eliminates any chance of dialogue, especially with Palestinians and Israelis already committed to end the occupation. These are dark times: the fear of a catastrophe waiting to unfold. Israelis still don’t know the fate of their loved ones, everyday Palestinians are trying to survive under an all-out Israeli attack, the Israeli government and Hamas, both corrupt and bloodthirsty permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 7 points 2 years ago* You said that a majority of Israelis voted for Netenyahu. This is not true. The plain truth is that many of them are extremely comfortable with their government’s brutal treatment of the Palestinians. Earlier today I decided to read some opinion pieces in Haareetz. I kept reading comments similar to yours, and was wondering what actual Israelis think. Hareetz is a paper of record and luckily also available in English. I'll copy paste a few excerpts I found interesting. Hope you do to. These were human beings whom Israel dispossessed and expelled, whom it conquered again in their land of refuge and then turned into animals in a cage. They’ve experienced indiscriminate bombardments before, but now the worst of all is ahead of them. Israel has already announced that all the restraints it supposedly used in previous attacks will be lifted this time. Yes, hundreds of Gazans committed atrocious crimes, an outgrowth of 17 years of blockade and 75 years of suffering, with a bloody past and no present or future. But not all of a Gaza is to blame. This: Consequently, this needs to be said: Israel has held millions of people under a brutal blockade for more than 15 years with the support of the entire Western world. That is inhumane and inconceivable, and every solution to this bloody conflict ultimately includes respecting the rights of all people, both in Gaza and Sderot, to live with security and human dignity. And that begins with respecting the most basic rules as set down in the international laws of war, which are designed to reduce the harm to civilians. Or this: Ironically, those who cheer Hamas's deeds, believing they're advancing the Palestinian agenda, are inadvertently supporting Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's long-term strategy: the existence of Hamas ensures there will be no Palestinian state. More so, it eliminates any chance of dialogue, especially with Palestinians and Israelis already committed to end the occupation. These are dark times: the fear of a catastrophe waiting to unfold. Israelis still don’t know the fate of their loved ones, everyday Palestinians are trying to survive under an all-out Israeli attack, the Israeli government and Hamas, both corrupt and bloodthirsty permalink fedilink source parent
[–] expected_crayon@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago Article makes it sound like they expected just the typical barrage of rockets rather than the invasion that occurred. I’m not convinced this is evidence Israel wanted the attack - with the Iron Dome they likely had sufficient protections against rockets. Neither this nor the reported Egyptian warning appear to have provided details to make one expect what was essentially a ground invasion. permalink fedilink source parent
[+] BlinkerFluid@lemmy.one -7 points 2 years ago (1 child) Works out well for the US and their military contractors. I guess it was just another bit of good business in the capitalist haven of America. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] PugJesus@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago we literally warn them "Clearly the US wanted this" We have enough sins in our past of intentionally not warning governments, and enough in our present of mealy-mouthed "Oh, well, Israel is just defending itself" without having to add false charges to the pile. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] PugJesus@kbin.social 1 point 2 years ago we literally warn them "Clearly the US wanted this" We have enough sins in our past of intentionally not warning governments, and enough in our present of mealy-mouthed "Oh, well, Israel is just defending itself" without having to add false charges to the pile. permalink fedilink source parent