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Whole Foods argues it can ban BLM masks because the Supreme Court let a Christian business owner refuse same-sex couples (fortune.com)
submitted 3 years ago by to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml
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Amazon.com’s Whole Foods Market doesn’t want to be forced to let workers wear “Black Lives Matter” masks and is pointing to the recent US Supreme Court ruling permitting a business owner to refuse services to same-sex couples to get federal regulators to back off.

National Labor Relations Board prosecutors have accused the grocer of stifling worker rights by banning staff from wearing BLM masks or pins on the job. The company countered in a filing that its own rights are being violated if it’s forced to allow BLM slogans to be worn with Whole Foods uniforms.

Amazon is the most prominent company to use the high court’s June ruling that a Christian web designer was free to refuse to design sites for gay weddings, saying the case “provides a clear roadmap” to throw out the NLRB’s complaint.

The dispute is one of several in which labor board officials are considering what counts as legally-protected, work-related communication and activism on the job.

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[–] 0 points 3 years ago* (last edited 3 years ago) (9 children)

Ah yes... Athens...

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Socrates/The-Athenian-ideal-of-free-speech

Socrates was prosecuted because of his religious ideas and political associations indicates how easily an ideal held dear by his fellow Athenians—the ideal of open and frank speech among citizens—could be set aside when they felt insecure.

https://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2006/2006.07.49/

Through an examination of the American debate over the Bill of Rights and the political thought of John Locke, Saxonhouse articulates a modern conception of free speech that focuses on free speech as a necessary tool to check the actions of an always potentially tyrannical government.

So... you wanna try that again? Notice that this is gasp in relation to the government. Not private property. So yes... in the context of this thread... which is US lawsuit against a US company... This would be the first amendment.

Edit: Added missing information I meant to copy in... My bad.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (8 children)

    If free speech existed anywhere before the 1st amendment then you can’t say that any reference to free speech is a reference to the first amendment. It may surprise you to hear that free speech is a concept which often goes beyond the first amendment, even in the US. When Elon Musk talks about “free speech” on Twitter, is he very confused about the first amendment? Or could he be talking about the concept of free expression?

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago (7 children)

    When Elon Musk talks about “free speech” on Twitter

    He's blowing smoke up your xitter. He doesn't care about freedom of expression at all.
    https://themarkup.org/investigations/2023/09/15/twitter-is-still-throttling-competitors-links-check-for-yourself
    https://9to5mac.com/2023/08/18/elon-musk-says-twitter-will-no-longer-let-you-block-other-people/

    Which is his right on that platform since he owns it. Just makes him a shit person. Doesn't mandate that Twitter has to have "free speech".

    And sorry, you'll have to forgive me [or not, whatever]. I meant to add another link and quote to the previous comment [which I've now added] that I apparently forgot. Even in Athens they didn't have "free" speech. It was an illusion even then.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago (6 children)

    None of that is relevant to my actual point and you know it.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 years ago (5 children)

    It very much is relevant. Both in the it didn't exist in Athens, and doesn't exist today as you opine it to be.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago (4 children)

    I’ll try and simplify it a bit for you since you seem to be struggling.

    Has the term “free speech” ever been used to refer to anything other than the 1st amendment?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (3 children)

    I’ll try and simplify it a bit for you since you seem to be struggling.

    And I'll repeat it for you.

    Free speech is literally a reference to the first amendment. There is no “right” to free speech outside of the first amendment.

    There is no RIGHT to free speech... outside of the first amendment. Which only pertains to government influence. There is no RIGHT to it in any other case. At what point where is what I said wrong? Implying that Whole Foods is doing something wrong here for enforcing a fair dress policy, while turning around and talking about Amazon lobbying the government is disingenuous as fuck. You yourself could lobby the government as well. If there's no innate right to free speech otherwise. Your "free speech" (which doesn't exist anyway) doesn't outweigh someones right to their owned property (in this case the Whole Foods).

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  • [–] 0 points 3 years ago (2 children)

    Will you answer the question?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago (1 child)

    Sure, I never said that concept doesn't exist outside of government. Just that there is no right to it anywhere except given through government mandate and on governments behalf.

    The original statement was

    Free speech for me but not for thee.

    Which implies that the worker has a right to "free speech" at work but is abused by some other class of person making up bullshit rules... which they don't. Instead it's a right that granted by the Government for public (actually public) functions. Further it's not a bullshit rule since it's a rule that was agreed upon when the worker joined the company... And I would be willing to bet that the management (or other class that is under the "thee" reference) themselves adhere to as well. Especially since it went to court and was found to be applied equally across the board.

    There is a reason I quoted "right" in that post you know... Or did you skip that to make a pedantic argument?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 years ago

    No, the original basis of my first point was that you falsely equated the concept of free speech to only ever be about the first amendment when that clearly is not the case and you even admit it yourself. And you’ve just been fighting a strawman ever since.

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