wonderingwanderer comments on Its crazy to me that no one is saying "if rhe AI is doing all the jobs maybe we can spend more time with the family and children we supposedly love."

[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 point 19 hours ago (14 children)

All things that save time at home, not at work.

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[–] plantfanatic@sh.itjust.works 3 points 17 hours ago* (13 children)

Do people not do laundry for work? Mow lawns? Drive? Anything you could use for personal use can also help with work… what about a restaurant? No washing machines there apparently….

Do you have any specific examples that are solely “home saving” pieces of technology? Or do other peoples jobs not exist past your desk?

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[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz -1 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (12 children)

The whole point is that those technologies don't save the workers time at all, because the time saved just gets filled up with more work. The business owners are the one who benefit from the increased productivity, not the workers.

The workers don't get more free time as a result of the technology. In many cases, they take a pay cut because the technology makes their job "easier" or "less skilled." So they still work 8 or more hours a day, and they still make barely enough to get by on (if they even make that much), while their boss only gets richer for their efforts.

This is the entire point that seems to be going over your head.

[Edit: "easier" and "less skilled" were in scare-quotes because they don't represent my personal point of view, but it's how the employers justify it. Thought that would be obvious.]

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[–] plantfanatic@sh.itjust.works 2 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (11 children)

No I get that, but both topics can happen at once.

Sorry this need to be explained that your view isn’t the only one ;)

We have all these things to use at home because they originally started at work, can’t have one without the other. But you would need to look at this objectively for that, but clearly you are biased and just want to whinge that capitalism is bad! Even though that wasn’t brought up by anyone in this chain. But bloviate if you want!

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[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz -1 points 15 hours ago (10 children)

You're loading so much strawman and ad hominem into that comment that I can only assume you're not arguing in good faith. Did you use your alts to upvote yourself? Cause I can't imagine anyone on this sub would go for that drivel

Even though that wasn’t brought up by anyone in this chain.

This entire post is about "AI taking over jobs," and now you want to pretend the topic isn't about work life (i.e., under capitalism)?

Sorry this need to be explained that your view isn’t the only one

What are you even trying to insinuate? Did I ever claim that my viewpoint is the only one? No, I just said you're wrong. I can do that without claiming some sort of monopoly on facts.

Besides, you're the one who seems to be having trouble admitting that you've been mistaken. Instead of saying "Oh, that makes sense, yeah I get it now" you're launching into this tirade of personal attacks? Not rational behavior. And yet you want to preach to me about "looking at it objectively"?

Objectively, the topic of this conversation was about whether technology saves workers time, and the fact is, it doesn't, as can be demonstrably proven.

Nobody was talking about whether or not washing machines save you time on your chores. A person who works at an industrial laundromat facility isn't getting a 4-hour workday with UBI just because somebody invented a more efficient machine. He'll be doing the same amount of work, not getting paid more for the increased productivity. Only difference is his boss will get richer. Do you want to continue denying that reality?

As an analogy for AI in the workplace, which is where this conversation started, the pattern holds true. It doesn't save the workers time. It doesn't make them more money. They get worked just as hard for just as long, sometimes even moreso as the expected output increases. And their bosses reap the benefits of any increase in productivity.

Any attempt by you to retreat behind a motte-and-bailey by trying to subtly change the topic to basic housekeeping tasks (which again, is not the topic of this discussion), is doing nothing more than obfuscating the situation for the benefit of the owner-class. So what is your goal here?

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[–] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 1 point 4 hours ago (7 children)

Someone has never heard of flat rate or piece rate work.

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[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 0 points 4 hours ago (6 children)

Is that how most jobs that use AI work? Because that's what this analogy is about

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[–] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 1 point 4 hours ago* (5 children)

? The topic is about all jobs.

And what specific jobs have ai taken over that you’re talking about?

Op literally said “if” in their post, you may be off about what the topic is about here dude.

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[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 0 points 3 hours ago (4 children)

Software engineering for one, and most white collar jobs for another.

If industry follows the example of China's car factories, then manufacturing jobs too.

"But what about gig work?" isn't a very good pro-AI argument to be honest

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[–] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 0 points 3 hours ago* (3 children)

Gig work is something entirely different. Stop being ignorant.

There’s also salary workers too, they can go home when their expected work is done.

There’s far more jobs than the ones at your own desk dude. You can’t ignore a good portion of the world to make your points, which aren’t even that great anyways.

And none of those jobs have been taken by ai, it’s like saying a carpenters jobs been taken by a wheelbarrow. There’s still gonna be carpenters needed, yes a small portion of that work may be different. But the entire work section isn’t suddenly gone. That’s not what you think happens is it…? There will always be software engineers, they’re not gone are they?

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[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 0 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

Keep defending AI, dude, and then turning it around and making it sound like it's about my ignorance.

You're acting like I can't see past my own desk? And yet you refuse to acknowledge the impact this is having on millions of working class people.

And none of those jobs have been taken by ai, [...] But the entire work section isn’t suddenly gone. [...] software engineers, they’re not gone are they?

Oh, so you haven't been paying attention? That's literally what's happening. Huge layoffs, tech workers unable to find work in what used to be considered one of the most secure job fields, and worst of all it's entry-level positions that are getting hit the hardest. New grads are almost entirely unable to find jobs. And this problem will only get worse as the senior positions retire and there's no one to replace them because companies weren't hiring new juniors.

And I'm not even a tech worker, so for you to insinuate that I'm somehow making this all about me is ridiculous. There's something called empathy which enables humans to give a shit about problems that mostly impact other people. I know that's so hard for you to wrap your mind around, so clearly you have to tell yourself that I'm actually being selfish by giving a shit about this. Whatever.

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[–] SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 1 point 3 hours ago* (1 child)

Jesus Christ I’m not defending ai, if that’s all you took from this exchange, you’re clearly not reading or comprehending anything that’s been said.

Good bye.

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[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 0 points 2 hours ago

Then you're completely ignoring the context of this conversation, because it's what it's been about from the start.

Good riddance.

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[–] plantfanatic@sh.itjust.works 1 point 13 hours ago*

Have you seriously never heard of jobs that pay by the sq/ft or piece…?

Drywall mudding with the right tools you can mud a house in a day instead of 5 and make the same money. Lawns are typically by the house as well, so the better the mower, the faster you can earn, or the sooner you can go home in the same day.

So how does that not save someone time? They could do the same amount of jobs and make the same money if the want, or make more, it’s entirely their choice.

Don’t have such a narrow and ignorant view of the world.

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[–] plantfanatic@sh.itjust.works 1 point 13 hours ago*

But bloviate if you want!

I see you went and did exactly that! Lmfao.

You apparently have no concept about how much technology saves for manual labor, yes it doesn’t always mean less work, but you’re working less in a lot of cases. Take that however you want, but you’ve already shown your view is apparantly the only valid one.

Would you rather use a scythe and blow your back out, use a push mower and be dead at the end of the day, or use a ride on and be comfortable all day? I know which one I would prefer, but go ahead and use your sciccors so you get less done, do a worse job, and be too sore and have no energy for you own shit.

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