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A Reminder (thelemmy.club)
submitted 1 day ago by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.ca
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[–] 0 points 1 day ago (48 children)

Yeah I don’t get it from some of these people.

One side took a dollar from the take-a-penny-leave-a-penny tray and stole a pack of smokes. The other side shot the brown teller behind the counter and emptied the till. Then lit the store on fire while yelling about the brown guy being an illegal immigrant.

We’re talking about orders of magnitude of shenanigans. And being wrong like Carter and being a traitorous, lying sack of shit like Reagan. Are completely different things.

The both sides are the same crowd are going to get us all killed.

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  • [–] 4 points 22 hours ago* (14 children)

    Reagan was far worse than Carter.

    Carter was a neoliberal and set the ball in motion for a lot of the worst that capitalism has reeked on the planet

    Two things can be true.

    both sides are the same

    I wasn’t saying that, but looks like that other guy went off the rails so good luck to him.

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  • [–] 5 points 22 hours ago (12 children)

    Both of the people I was talking to tried to defend Obama's continued occupation of Afghanistan, so I'd consider myself justified in going off the rails. Or rather, they're the one's that went off the rails.

    How anyone could defend the pointless killing of hundreds of thousands of people, especially now, when it's undeniable that it accomplished nothing, is hard to comprehend. How anyone could do so while thinking that they're anywhere remotely near the left, or that they have even a sliver of morality in their body, is beyond me entirely.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 hours ago (9 children)

    Yeah it’s all just back to “yeah but my side isn’t as bad as your side” when really it’s just classic class warfare and we’re all trapped in this manufactured bullshit fight.

    Democrats are controlled opposition for the billionaire class, and first pass the post makes it damn hard to get out of this ratchet effect pushing us ever farther right.

    Sure, I’ll tactically vote for the lesser of two evils. Definitely vote. Maybe we can at least slow things down, and god willing get an actually progressive on the ballot, somewhere, but I do it with my nose held shut.

    Not voting doesn’t send any message at all.

    I don’t know if MLK was right about the arc of the universe bending toward justice, but I hope so. I just don’t see things getting better unless we can do some good old fashioned trust busting and take at least some control back from the Epstein class.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 hours ago (8 children)

    Voting for controlled opposition is the opposite of being tactical.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 hours ago (7 children)

    I see. So what do you recommend I do with my ballot?

    Shove it up my ass?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 hours ago (6 children)

    If you like.

    Depending on the race, if there is someone who isn't controlled opposition or a genocidal warmonger, then voting for them could be worthwhile.

    Otherwise, literally all I'm asking you is to have some standards somewhere and to do something to actually hold politicians accountable to those standards. And if you can agree to that, then obviously no standard could possibly be more reasonable than, "No mass killing of hundreds of thousands of civilians" and no form of accountability could possibly be more reasonable than, "You don't get my vote."

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  • [–] 0 points 2 hours ago* (5 children)

    Depending on the race, if there is someone who isn'tcontrolled opposition or a genocidal warmonger, then voting for them could be worthwhile.

    No shit? What about when there is not? The situation I was obviously talking about?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 hours ago* (4 children)

    Did you not read my comment?

    Otherwise, literally all I’m asking you is to have some standards somewhere and to do something to actually hold politicians accountable to those standards. And if you can agree to that, then obviously no standard could possibly be more reasonable than, “No mass killing of hundreds of thousands of civilians” and no form of accountability could possibly be more reasonable than, “You don’t get my vote.”

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  • [–] 0 points 2 hours ago* (3 children)

    Your comment doesn’t answer the question.

    What do I do with my ballot?

    You told me voting for a controlled opposition candidate was not tactical voting.

    Were there exceptions?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 hours ago (2 children)

    Might want to work on your reading comprehension.

    no form of accountability could possibly be more reasonable than, “You don’t get my vote.”

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  • [–] 0 points 1 hour ago* (1 child)

    Ok. So shove it up my ass and let the fascists do the fascist speed run. Got it.

    Guess we’re done here. Cool of you to downvote my posts. Sorry for falling for it with an ml troll again.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 hour ago

    I only started downvoting your posts when you started acting like a dick and pretending I didn't answer things I very clearly did.

    So shove it up my ass and let the fascists do the fascist speed run.

    Voting for fascists, including moderate fascists, is how you enable a fascist speed run.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago* (32 children)

    My brother came home from Afghanistan with severe PTSD and started shooting meth to cope with it. My family was torn apart as he threw around all sorts of paranoid accusations and threatened to harm himself or others, always in language just vague enough to be actionable. He wound up picking up one of his many guns, driving out to some random, innocent person's house, and, fortunately, got shot in the arm by the cops who'd followed him there.

    I spent a full year of my life essentially being an on-call 9-1-1 operator. I quit using social media accounts for fear that he'd see I was online. But the pain and trauma that I experienced was nothing compared to what I could see in my mother's eyes.

    That was the most traumatic experience of my life. But I fully understand that it was nothing compared to the trauma he experienced, which was, in turn, nothing compared to the trauma the Afghan people experienced. What I experience, this second-, third-hand exposure to the horrors of war, it's literally just a first-world problem. But that tiny glimpse into the things the media doesn't like talk about, was enough.

    Who was the president, the commander-in-chief, who ordered him over there? It was the great, liberal progressive hero, Mr. Barack Obama. A guy who was, "just trying to do the right thing" but who occasionally makes some teensy weensy mistakes like prolonging a pointless, unwinnable war of aggression and getting hundreds of thousands of people killed for no reason and subjecting countless millions to horrors far worse than anything you or I could even comprehend. And that's just like taking a few too many coins from a take-a-penny, is that right?

    Absolutely fucking not. If you actually try to view the world from a global perspective, if you genuinely believe in equality and treat every Afghan's life as being equally valuable as your next-door neighbor's, then you will quickly find yourself understanding and agreeing with my perspective.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (31 children)

    This comment is funny because it further reinforces the point: Obama didn't start that war, and he was unable to cleanly exit it without leaving Afghanistan for the Taliban, which as we've seen has been disastrous for that country's girls and women.

    There are exactly three choices in every general election:

    1. The viable party.

    2. The other viable party.

    3. Not participating in the election at all.

    You might think there are other options like write-ins, protest votes, or third parties. Unfortunately, those are all permutations of #3: nonparticipation.

    Nobody here is saying they love Democrats. The party is about as popular as boiled cabbage at a chili competition. But when served with those three choices, participating in the election is important, which narrows it down to #1 or #2, and it's really not hard to choose between the GOP and the Democrats. The Democrats sent your brother to war. The Republicans started that war, sent way more people to it, killed more civilians, and made withdrawing impossible. The Democrats are also more likely to offer mental healthcare to your brother.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (30 children)

    Obama didn’t start that war, and he was unable to cleanly exit it without leaving Afghan for the Taliban.

    Gasp! Oh no! He couldn't leave or the Taliban would be left in charge!

    Hey, remind me again who exactly is in charge of Afghanistan right now?

    The Taliban were always going to win because the war was unwinnable from the first day, and it was even more unwinnable by the time Obama took office. He just had to pour countless lives into it first to accomplish nothing whatsoever. What, just so we could say we gave it the "ol' college try?"

    and it’s really not hard to choose between the GOP and the Democrats.

    Let me be absolutely clear: I would sooner die than even consider supporting anyone responsible for the war. There is no choice to be made. You could drag me into a voting booth at gunpoint, and I'd tell you to pull the trigger. This is the thing that you fuckers need to get through your thick fucking skulls. What they did is fundamentally unforgivable, and they should be behind bars.

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  • [–] -3 points 12 hours ago (2 children)

    Ah your an idiot and onevif rgecreasons we are where we are. Got it.

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  • [–] 5 points 12 hours ago

    Yes, that's correct. And I haven't learned my lesson and I'm not going to.

    Guess you'd better do everything you can to ensure your next candidate doesn't have the blood of hundreds of thousands of innocent people on their hands. Because I'm just too stupid to understand why it's acceptable to vote for a mass murderer, and no matter how you explain it, I'm simply not smart enough to ever understand.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 day ago (6 children)

    You wanting an ideal world isn’t just going to magically make it happen. Unfortunately we have to live in reality where nuance is real.

    You could drag me into a voting booth at gunpoint, and I'd tell you to pull the trigger. This is the thing that you fuckers need to get through your thick fucking skulls.

    No we get it. You’re an extremist and live in a fantasy world where nuance doesn’t exist and your extreme idea of morality is the only option.

    Unfortunately we have to live with you (who you honestly seem like a moral person but unfortunately don’t understand that politics and most of life is about compromise) and the sociopaths on the other side who will exploit your morality to get everything they want. Your inability to understand the nuance is only good for the sociopaths.

    Us, the realists, who understand that Obama couldn’t just pack up and leave also understand that you can’t understand that.

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  • [–] 4 points 17 hours ago (4 children)

    You’re an extremist and live in a fantasy world where nuance doesn’t exist and your extreme idea of morality is the only option.

    Us, the realists, who understand that Obama couldn’t just pack up and leave also understand that you can’t understand that.

    I really don't get how Libs think that Democrats just can't stop war and murder. It's actually not that hard, in fact, most people go their whole lives without invading another country, and murdering a bunch of innocent people. But when it comes to Democrats, that's just "what they have to do", for some reason.

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  • [–] -3 points 12 hours ago (3 children)

    Actually most Americans do since its your government and it represents the people.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 hours ago

    The US government objectively does not represent the people, and never has. It has always represented the oligarchy. Previously:

    The US government was never not captured by the bourgeoisie, because the US was born of a bourgeois revolution[1]. The wealthy, white, male, land-owning, largely slave-owning Founding Fathers constructed a bourgeois state with “checks and balances” against the “tyranny of the majority”. It was never meant to represent the majority—the working class—and it never has, despite eventually allowing women and non-whites (at least those not disenfranchised by the carceral system) to vote. BBC: [Princeton & Northwestern] Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy

    The game is rigged. The election cycle’s pomp and circumstance is to divert your energy and attention from the fact that it’s a big club, and you ain’t in it.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 hours ago

    Bush ran on avoiding foreign interventionism, and invaded. Obama ran on reducing involvement in the Middle East, then increased involvement. Trump ran on being an "outsider," distancing himself from the establishment in both parties who had conducted the war, then he continued the war.

    When did Americans ever have the opportunity to choose anyone different? For 20 years, we were never given a choice. Because when the ruling class really wants something, it gets it. Because the US is not a democracy.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago

    Us, the realists, who understand that Obama couldn’t just pack up and leave also understand that you can’t understand that.

    WHY THE FUCK NOT? That's literally exactly what Biden did, the only difference is that we spend an extra decade pouring endless amounts of blood and treasure, to accomplish NOTHING. "Realist," my ass.

    Realism was recognizing that the war was lost from the minute it started, because the occupation could not last forever and the moment it ended the puppet government would collapse. Calling yourself a "realist," while pretending that a decades long occupation was a "mistake" is completely absurd.

    There's plenty of room for nuance, on certain topics. Not on this. Not the mass murder of hundreds of thousands of civilians. If Trump killed a hundred thousand people in New York City, would you be talking about "nuance?" Was the Holocaust "nuanced?" There's a fucking line to be drawn, and there's exactly one reason why Afghans are on one side of the line to me and the other to you, and it's that you don't see them as actual human beings.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 day ago* (19 children)

    K well as long as you're unwilling to vote strategically, you'll continue to allow evil fascists to take over the US. The rest of us will try to elect progressives in primaries and support the most left-leaning viable candidate in the general election because that's how you defeat fascists if your society isn't ready for a revolution yet, and ours isn't. Too many full bellies and entertained morons.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago* (18 children)

    Oh no! If the evil fascists take over, they might start a war of aggression that kills hundreds of thousands of innocent people or something! Just imagine!

    There's a discussion to be had about potentially supporting imperfect candidates, but every single one of you takes it to a ridiculous extreme, such that even outright genocide is no biggie. It's completely ridiculous, utterly absurd. Frankly, yours is not a view that should even be tolerated in society.

    A complete and total refusal to hold politicians to any degree of accountability for literally anything, treating them as completely above the law. This is exactly why the term Blue MAGA is completely appropriate. You are the moderate wing of fascism.

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  • [–] -4 points 12 hours ago (2 children)

    Ah yes Harris would be exactly like trump. Well hope youbenjoy your country burning to the ground. Have fun. And stio complaining your complicit in the whole thing.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 hours ago

    I love how libs can't address the points that other people make, and have to keep making up arguments that nobody is saying, to yell at.

    Also, the "person who supports genocidists is mad that their genocidist didn't get elected" is such a silly concept to me. Then they turn around and yell at the anti-genocidists for "being complicit".

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  • [–] -2 points 23 hours ago (14 children)

    Blue MAGA

    This is one of those phrases that tells everyone exactly what they need to know about you. Have a great day!

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  • [–] 1 point 12 hours ago (2 children)

    this comment is very telling

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  • [–] 2 points 23 hours ago (10 children)

    Worse from talking to you.

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  • [–] -2 points 22 hours ago (9 children)

    Well if you live in a swing state, you deserve it for plunging my homeland into fascism. Have a mediocre day!

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  • [–] 4 points 17 hours ago

    I love how Libs always try to blame others for their mistakes.

    "If you didn't vote for the party that bombs kids, supports rapists, and backed a genocide, it's because you actually like fascism!"

    This is why the term BlueMAGA works so well: Because Libs can't see their own cultish hypocrisy, even when it's staring at them in the mirror.

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  • [–] 2 points 22 hours ago* (7 children)

    I didn't plunge anybody's homeland into fascism. It's just that you'd just rather punch left than blame the people actually responsible.

    There have been many times throughout history where people have considered genocide as acceptable to prevent a greater evil. Every single one of them was wrong.

    "If the enemy is at the gates, we need to round up and exterminate anyone of their race, because if they open the gates to them, they'll kill us all. The lesser evil is for just some people to die." That is the level of morality that you're operating on. Go ahead and lecture me on what kind of day I "deserve," as if willingness to sacrifice the lives of innocents is somehow a moral virtue and not a sign of your spinelessness and depravity.

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  • [–] -2 points 21 hours ago (6 children)

    I didn’t plunge anybody’s homeland into fascism.

    Sorry, but you helped. You decided that your morality was more important than your efficacy. One day you will grow up and regret your decisions like I did. Sorry.

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  • [–] 3 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (4 children)

    Sorry, but you helped.

    Well then, you're welcome. Because if I "helped" Trump get elected, then by the exact same logic I "helped" Biden get elected, and you can rest assured that I will be "helping" your favorite genocidal warmonger next time.

    You decided that your morality was more important than your efficacy.

    Yes, obviously. That's what having morals means. Do you believe it is morally wrong to have morals? Because you might want to examine the very obvious logical contradiction there.

    One day you will grow up and regret your decisions like I did.

    If I knew that I would wake up tomorrow thinking that, I would kill myself tonight, without hesitation.

    One day, perhaps, you will grow up and realize the true extent of what you're supporting. It's only possible for you to think the way you do because of your blissful ignorance of what your people are doing on the other side of the wall.

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  • [–] 0 points 5 hours ago (1 child)

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing."

    You're doing nothing, and there's nothing conscientious or moral about it. I hope you develop a stronger will to live before this truth sinks in.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing.”

    It's insane that this is actually the second time in my life that someone has tried to twist and bastardize that quote to try to justify the invasion of Afghanistan. The other was a Trump voter.

    "Evil triumphing" is when hundreds of thousands of civilians get murdered. "Doing nothing" is when you refuse to lift a finger oppose the people responsible. What the two of you fail to understand is that you are the evil that triumphs when good people do nothing. And what you do is even worse than nothing, because you actively support them

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