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Venezuela's Rodriguez promises elections in transition to 'full democracy' (www.reuters.com)
submitted 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) by to c/news@hexbear.net
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Rodriguez gives no date for vote despite pledging elections at UN

This is completely in line with the previous PSUV position. It's not even a concession. They have always maintained that they have free and fair elections. She is the rightful legal successor to Maduro, and she is promising to uphold the existing democratic norms of her country. That she isn't taking an outwardly hostile tone towards the nation which enjoys total military superiority over them during a diplomatic mission at the UN may come across as a betrayal to certain ultra-leftists in the US, but it would seem that the Chavistas in Venezuela do not share the same view.

A Lemmygrad comrade

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[–] 11 points 2 days ago (6 children)

And look at the kind of responses this post got only a few hours ago: https://hexbear.net/post/9624864

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (5 children)

    their vitriol will only worsen as their cope becomes more disconnected

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  • [–] 10 points 2 days ago (4 children)

    Ah yes, we are disconnected from things, when you can't even get what we are actually arguing correct.

    You will set us up in a position we weren't arguing for and then declare victory if things go your way, despite the fact that you are basically just on some polymarket bullshit, where your pride in whatever vibes-based opinion you have formed is, for some reason, so much more important than the opinions of the people whose lives are actually on the line here, that you can completely outright dismiss them WITHOUT EVEN READING THEM.

    Yeah, if we are coping, you are seething.

    If the projection was any stronger you would be a movie theatre.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

    You don't even have a firm position you are arguing. You simultaneously argue that the revolution is strong, continuous, undefeated and this is only a momentary retreat - while also arguing that Venezuela cannot win a war or resist and has to give in. Those are contradictions. You are the one with the incoherent positions.

    A socialist project that "must" give in to American demands and control of their economy is not "strong" or "undefeated" and ownership is not "momentary". It is an accelerating feedback loop that has destroyed almost every socialist project in history.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 days ago* (2 children)

    That isn't at all what I am arguing for. What are these words you are using, "strong, continuous, undefeated, momentary retreat". I did not say this. The chavistas did not say this. You said that. I haven't said anything about their military readiness or how or what they are or should be doing to resist or even if they are. You have made these contradictions for yourself.

    They have suffered an absolutely massive setback, but not a total defeat. This isn't the first time this has happened. Chavez was literally imprisoned in the country before being released and elected. And unlike that time, there was no actual democratic commune system established.

    If the chavistas are correct, and the democratic commune system that has been established is the underlying power actually within the country, then it is unlikely that a transition from the PSUV to a fully comprador government will ever happen. If they are wrong, then we will likely see that happen within the next couple of years, and the communes driven underground and destroyed. Or maybe both things are true, where the communes exist but then choose to sell the country to the U.S. Or maybe the PSUV completely capitulates and destroys the commune system itself.

    I have no idea at this point.

    All I know is that most of the conciliations being made by the PSUV were things they were already on the table when Maduro was in charge (which maybe Maduro was a comprador and fake socialist, idk), with slightly less independent terms, however, the acceptance of Israel and rejection of Cuba does not bode well for the future of the government, but that despite these developments the chavistas are not viewing these things as a complete destruction of the movement, and generally have extremely clear-eyed views on how precarious their position is. All things I have read, so idk really if any of them is actually true.

    I'm just not throwing my hands up and saying "It's over, they're fucked, socialism dead and gone." I am waiting to see what the hell actually happens and if they are able to pull a rabbit out the hat. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other. I am not involved in their social revolution and if it lives or dies has absolutely no bearing on how I personally interact with my local, state, and national politics.

    Socialism does not die if Venezuelan social revolution dies, because otherwise it is already well dead.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 child)

    this is bad faith, you know full well that people are making the arguments I stated in this very thread and others on the subject.

    The communes make up 1% of the labor force of Venezuela. The (now entirely American controlled and dictated) oil industry is around 16-18% of the labor force when including secondary/tertiary support industries and 25-50% of the Venezuelan economy and 95% of its exports. Who do you think wins this one when you take into account who PSUV is siding with and the imperialist money flowing into the economy now?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

    I am not saying that, the chavistas aren't saying that and I don't particularly care about what anybody else in this forum is saying, because that is not what I am arguing or have ever argued.

    My mistake though, I took 'they' as a snipe at me.

    I agree, the people that are saying that, if they are, are wrong.

    Hell yeah, something actually resembling a real argument. This is potentially some ultra shit, but it's genuinely a good point.

    Agreed. It certainly doesn't look very good or bode well for the future. However, Chevron already had a full monopoly on oil production in Venezuela. If the communes have no power now, then they had no power before either, and the whole thing was a sham. So either they do have power now, as they did before, and it remains to be seen if this arrangement goes the way of the Chinese or the Soviets or they were never socialist and nothing has been fundamentally lost.

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