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[–] 6 points 2 days ago (4 children)

I mean, nukes would guarantee nuclear fallout hitting at least one of the neighboring nations, including Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE. That would set in stone our rank of dead last as a potential partner in all things military, trade, monetary, etc. The fallout would likely permanently fuck up the strait, so insuring tankers in the strait might be impossible at that point, so passage would be pointless.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 days ago (3 children)

    Why would it guarantee such an eventuality?

    Strategic nukes - you know, the ones on ICBMs, the ones capable of such fallout scenario - are preventative. They’re MAD. Nobody wants to use them, everybody wants to have them. Their goal is total annihilation, maximum amount of radiation and destruction.

    Tactical nuclear weapons are the ones you actually deploy - small, targeted charges with minimal radiation, very specific radius of destruction, which can be as small as a city block. Hell, the smallest nuclear weapon, the W54, has a fireball radius of as small as 4 meters, with a blast radius of 100-120m (severe damage), and ~300-400m (window breaking damage). In fact the largest issue with such a nuclear device is the relatively large gamma and neutron radiation radius - even though the fireball itself is small, the prompt radiation at detonation would vapourise everything in a 100m radius.

    Basically if the US really wanted to play with nukes they could probably smuggle in maybe a dozen of these charges, and simultaneously vapourise the entire Iranian government as well as a handful of major landmarks in Tehran.

    Or, you know, since the capital IS on the other side of a considerable mountain range, they can just drop a 2-3 megaton warhead on Tehran, wiping out a good 2/3 of the city (airburst), killing about 7 million people, without having ANY kind of radiation effect beyond a 50km radius.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    Which is why they should never have been allowed to be developed. You just showed what kind of rationale would be used to justify something that is still a nuclear weapon, but somehow fits past the MAD idea in some people's minds. Once we make that line gray, it can be shifted around to allow all sorts of things, and MAD fails.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago* (1 child)

    What are you talking about?

    MAD still works just fine. Iran is not a nuclear nation. The whole idea behind MAD is that nuclear capable nations cannot nuke each other. Some nuclear nations say countries xyz are under our protection, but nobody has such an agreement with Iran.

    If the US used a tactical nuke on say Russia it would absolutely trigger a response leading to MAD. The only thing stopping nukes being used on non-nuclear nations was a combination of ethics and diplomacy. Two things the US very much lacks.

    MAD never meant you absolutely can't use nukes, it always referred to who specifically you can't use nukes on

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago

    Which is actually worse. That's saying both "they're just small nukes" and "they can't attack back". No, it's not MAD in the case with Iran, but the point was once we start using things like that, we'll find reasons to excuse it and use them again elsewhere, and MAD will be tested at some point if that happens. We shouldn't even be having this kind of debate. We seemed to understand that for a while, but now it's like "well, tactical nukes are different".

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