you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 31 points 3 days ago (7 children)

A couple years ago it was complex. The complexity just stopped mattering once Israel turned the conflict into a war of annihilation.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 30 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

    It was always this simple at its core. What made it complex was that most people believed Israeli lies.

    Right now, Israel is doing exactly what they've done since the very first day. They're just doing it faster now, and in the age of ubiquitous video coverage and information flow.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 12 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    "Complex" doesn't mean "balanced". Israel has always pulled underhanded shit like extending its de facto borders by means of "settlements". The Hamas/PLO fight also didn't happen without its involvement. But there have also been factors like the involvement of foreign powers, German guilt, the similarity between Zionism and early Nazi deportation plans, and so on.

    The conflict between Israel and Palestine has been a mess from the very beginning and it's understandable that people were reluctant to get involved. Of course these days most of that complexity doesn't matter and not taking a stand is a luxury we shouldn't be able to afford.

    (I'm saying "shouldn't be able to" because honestly we routinely ignore genocides; this one just happens to be particularly hard to ignore because Israel is a spotlight hog with huge diplomatic influence.)

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 2 days ago

    I agree. The whole history of that area is quite the mess, and Israel started as an one. It is oversimplification to say the chain of events leading to all this is simple... But the genocide is. There is nothing complicated in condemning a state trying to exterminate a group of people. There is no neutral stance to take. You either accept the genocide, by supporting it directly, or indirectly by not opposing it - or you oppose it.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 0 points 2 days ago

    "Complex" means "balanced" when people like Sheeran use it to mean there are "bad people on both sides" to justify not taking a stand. Which is the explicit usage we were talking about.

    But yeah, other ways you can use the world "complex", do not imply "balanced". If that's how you were using it, in this instance where it was being used differently, you should have stated such.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago

    Nah, it was always simple. Don't murder civilians. Even the Oct 7th stuff is kinda misleading. Israel has been fucking with Palestinians for so long it's not surprising there are people who want them dead. But, everyone is a terrorist in the eyes of a state when it's convenient for them. And for the record, this isn't a defense of Hamas.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 0 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

    Yep. Before, there was still some ambiguity (especially if you grew up in a german speaking country like me, who have their own wounds regarding Israel) - Hamas and Israel both weren't "the good guys", because after decades there was no one left with a clean rep sheet, but they were both not actively working on completely annihilating each other. But what Israel started after Oct 7 has reset all of this. And as long as Israel doesn't get the fuck out of Gaza, the West Bank and the areas they are trying to make unlivable for civilians since the start of the Iran fuckup and starts making amends, i will never cry a single tear for any civilians in Israel getting hurt, because just like the americans, they did not do enough to prevent fascists taking over their country.

  • source
  • parent