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[–] [S] 92 points 1 month ago (92 children)

If you consider depreciation and increasing gas prices, getting a 1 or 2 year old EV today is the best financial decision for those having that budget. It will also work for lesser budgets.

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  • [–] 73 points 1 month ago (30 children)

    If you consider depreciation

    Maybe I'm weird, but I never consider depreciation. If the car is worth anything more than scrap value, it's not yet time for a new car.

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  • [–] 42 points 1 month ago

    I drove a 20+ year old car up until I had a kid, and suddenly I started to care about those safety features from the previous 20 years (like airbags and crumple zone improvements).

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  • [–] 14 points 1 month ago (8 children)

    Can cost you more to maintain it though.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (7 children)

    EV cost more to maintain then gas?

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  • [–] 19 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    I mean not replacing a 20 year old car can cost you more than a monthly payment of a newer car. My ev has been going strong.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    True that. Just got hit with a 2k maintenance bill for my 20 yo vehicle and looking to pivot to an EV. It helps that I don't drive much and work from home but I'm certain that my wife would prefer to drive the EV to and from work rather than her hybrid.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Yeah, my friends are complaining about $50 a week for gas and I'm around $40 a month for electricity.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (3 children)

    Here, it's like 200€ to 30€ a month if you can charge home. That buys a lot of depreciation.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    Unfortunately, you can't ignore depreciation. It's rarely possible to actually drive a car into the dirt, as they can last for hundreds of thousands of miles if properly maintained.

    Even if you intend to drive the car into the ground, you usually can't. Every time you get on the road it's a roll of the dice. Over enough time, eventually you roll snake eyes. You can be the best driver in the world, you can't beat physics. If someone pulls out of a parking lot right in front of you, you're going to crash. You can't skill your way out of minimum stopping distance.

    And this happens, depreciation matters regardless of your choices. The insurance company is going to offer you a settlement based on the depreciated value of the vehicle. Sure, in theory you could say, "well, they gave me the value of a 10 year old car, so I'm just going to buy another copy of the same car I just totaled!" But that rarely works in practice. Once they get that old, you really have to worry if the old owner took care of it properly or not. Driving a car into the dirt works well when you can be the original owner and know that the maintenance has been kept up with.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago

    I said I'd drive my first car until the wheels fell off.

    Well, one day it actually did, coming around a bend on a highway. Fortunately there weren't many other people driving out at the time. I ended up flipping it over on the embankment, single-car collision.

    I stayed true to my word. Never fucking said it about another car since.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    Tell that to my 40 year old daily driver. Just fix your stuff....

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  • Again. you can only do so much, especially if we're talking about buying a new vehicle today and driving that into the ground. Sure, you can keep things maintained. But even if you're the world's most skilled driver, you can't control other people.

    Just this last year we lost a 15 year old Corolla. We had been planning to drive it into the dirt. Driving down a side street, maybe 30 mph. Some person doesn't look both ways properly and pulls out right in front of us from a parking lot. No time to stop. Insurance declared it a total loss. Not worth fixing. Would cost more to repair than the thing is worth.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    In the context of OP, depreciation means that a “$50K when new” car may only be worth ~$35K if you choose to buy it 1-2 years later.

    So it’s not so much about it’s residual value at any point in time, but rather how EVs tend to have a steeper depreciation curve at the beginning - making lightly used models a more attractive bargain.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    Then assume straight line depreciation between the car brand new and the car when it is scrap. If a $60,000 car lasts 20 years and you own it the whole time, you can consider the depreciation to be $3000/year if you'd like.

    Either way, at the end of the car's useful life you need to be prepared to pony up more money to buy the next one.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    It matters if you are in a collision for the payout.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago (24 children)

    I got a new 2025 ID. BUZZ for 63k a few weeks back. Any EV with that many seats is expensive and hard to find on our used market here. I think that was a decent price considering initially it retailed around 90K

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago (17 children)

    Hello fellow Buzz owner. I also bought a 2025 buzz new a couple of weeks ago. So far love having the EV kid hauler

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (16 children)

    Exactly 🤣. Make sure you get your electrify promo if you're in Canada. Something like 1400 or 1600 kWh free charing over a few years.

    I don't have a stage 2 charger yet...

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    My sister has my old leaf and 2 kids. The leaf is the household car. The grocery getter. The child fetcher. When they announced the buzz she wanted one so goddamn bad. It’s the return of the minivan in electric form. Exactly what she wants but alas cannot afford.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    Ordered a LWB earlier in the year, still waiting on delivery - currently due mid-Nov., but with the Suez Canal looking to be off-limits due to the conflict in Yemen - not sure if/when it’ll land here in Australia. 😭

    How’re you finding it, in these first few weeks? Any quirks/niggles you weren’t expecting, or adjustments you’ve needed to make?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    Yeah some.

    Personally I hate that it (and this is probably a fact for ALL new vehicles) is the level of tracking and data collection. Hard braking? Hard acceleration? A collision? Don't worry, insurance knows. VW collects this and much more info and shares it with third parties 🙃. Just read the app ToS.

    Level 1 charging is working okay, needing to too up at a paid charger once in a while but it's still night and day cheaper than gas or diesel.

    It's super comfy and roomy. Overall I'm quite happy with it.

    The charging connectors an unexpected quirk though. Once it's charging you can't release it. You need to either use the app, turn on the ignition and dig through the touch screen settings, or click your fob unlock button.

    But this is my first ev and first vehicle I've ever owned that's newer than 2010 so... Ya lol

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (2 children)

    Not a fan of all of that tracking, but as I’m doing a novated lease through work (so it comes out of my pre-taxed income) - I’m not sure I’ll have much leeway to figure out how to disable that.

    We’re starting off with a level 1 charger, but as we’re in a 230V nation - we’re hoping that 12am - 6am charging (when our rates are ~8c/kWh) will suffice.

    Good to know about the charging cable lock, and that does make sense - prevents jokers from randomly unplugging cars from chargers out in public. Can imagine having to explain that one to the missus a couple of times before it clicks though. 😅

    It’ll be replacing our ‘16 Honda CR-V; we’re all pretty low-key excited - especially our 3yo.

    How do you find the acceleration - any issues getting up to speed from 0 on freeway on-ramps?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    We have the AWD version:

    RWD: 282 hp, 413 lb-ft torque

    4MOTION AWD: 335 hp, 413 lb-ft torque

    AWD adds a front motor with 99 lb-ft of torque; the rear motor still produces 413 lb-ft.

    0–100 km/h: about 6.4 sec for the AWD version.

    So.. Ya it's pretty quick. No issues with the power st all.

    Depending on how much you drive that window may be too small. You'll get like 1.4kWh of battery recovered per hour, which is roughly 5-8Km of range.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (35 children)

    If you consider depreciation, that 1 or 2 year old EV today will take a much deeper plunge over the next 5 years than a 1 or 2 year old ICE vehicle, unless something changes rapidly or they change battery warranties to be 15 years or more.

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  • [–] [S] 8 points 1 month ago (8 children)

    You'll need to show data for that. Depreciation is not linear. The first year is worst and then not so bad.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago* (7 children)

    You can look up used car prices yourself. But sure.

    2 year old E-Tron for 65k

    5 year old E-Tron for 25k

    That 5 year old one is starting to look like a pretty good bargain already. The 2 year old one not so much.

    I can find you tons more pairs for EVs that have lost a ton of value going from 1-2 to 5-6 years old if you still don't believe me, but we'll have to discuss my hourly rate if I'm going to be working for you.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    In 2003 I bought a 1993 Mercedes for 5% of its sticker price, inflation-corrected. 80K Km, new-looking. Everyone warned me about maintenance costs but the '93 was a rugged beast. Family road trips and multiple moving days and a lot of mileage. I was prepared for some expensive repairs due to money saved in purchase costs but got through another 10 years no problems, other than the 4matic AWD computer which just turned it into a solid RWD until I bought a used replacement.

    Gaming the ripe time to pick a used model really depends upon design and manufacturing, but the sweet spot for reliable brands seems to be 5-10 years.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    In 2019 I bought a 2003 Mercedes for somewhere between 5 and 10 percent of its sticker price, I guess pretty close to 5 if inflation is accounted for. Maybe even less.

    It had 380k km on the odometer, but it had been through Lithuania so some of the modules showed 700k km when interrogated. Previous owner also told me that there's no way the 380k km is original.

    I did have to do maintenance on it, but the only thing that really let me down was the steering rack. It failed and then a reman replacement unit failed too. Only reason I got rid of the car, otherwise I'd still be driving it. Bulletproof engine and transmission.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago* (14 children)

    Unless you are getting an old Nissan leaf, you’re probably going to be fine. Todays EV batteries are so energy dense they undergo less strain than the old versions.

    There were 2 problems with early EV batteries. First, they were not actively cooled and could cook themselves to death over time. Today’s batteries have their own climate control.

    Second, they were not very energy dense, so when they were being charged or discharged, you were moving a larger proportion of overall capacity in a short amount of time. Batteries do not like that. But as the capacities grew, the instantaneous load on the batteries dropped, so they didn’t have to work as hard to do the same thing. So they weren’t as abused and last longer.

    Event first gen Chevy volts are rolling around happily on their original batteries with no noticeable loss in capacity to this day.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    I'm glad someone else is talking about EV depreciation, although it is not a popular subject in this community.

    I'm still very much pro-EV, and it's undoubtedly the future. But I think not talking about this one negative thing does a disservice to new potential EV buyers.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (6 children)

    That's a good thing, is the point of this article and general wisdom. Cars last 10+ years so for the used market, the sooner the car depreciates the better. Unless you plan to sell your car, depreciation rarely matters right? You buy a car to run it into the ground, so the cheaper to start the better.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (5 children)

    Yes, it's a good thing for buying a very used car. You'd have to be a fucking idiot to buy one brand new and mildly stupid to buy a lightly used one.

    It's not a good thing if you want to buy an EV that's still worth something with the intention of being able to sell it before it becomes a heavy heap of problems. Heavy depreciation is good when you're buying 10+ years old, not when you're buying 2-3 years old with warranty still intact. For that case you'd want moderate depreciation, where it's already lost some price, but you know it'll still be worth something in 5 years. Plus most people still need to get financing of some sort on a ~20-30k purchase. If it depreciates too quickly and something happens to your finances, you'll be underwater on that loan or lease while trying to get rid of it.

    Meaning any EV under 10-15 years old is currently a really bad deal financially, meaning an early Tesla Model S is basically the smartest EV purchase unfortunately.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago (1 child)

    That's a ton of assumptions that I think do not hold any real water. The smartest car purchase for most urban or suburban commuters in the US (and likely most other car dependent countries) is a used EV. The best ones have heavily depreciated because of the top 10% churning their cars, they have 80-90% of their battery range (which most people don't even need), and they cost almost nothing to own and operate.

    I would argue no one should be buying a car with the intention of selling it later, because all cars depreciate terribly (COVID was a very unique circumstance).

    The warranty does not care about the value of the car, it's only for parts and repair so what you said doesn't make any sense.

    Your other point is if you buy a depreciating asset with a loan and then lose your income you'll have a hard time paying off that loan. That's literally true for everything in the world. No one should be buying a car they can't afford, and definitely not with a loan they can't safely afford. There's always refinancing which would in your hypothetical would always be a better move as again the ongoing cost of an EV is something like 1/6th or 1/10th of a gas car.

    I think you're giving terrible advice and have been given very bad information.

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