▲ 69 ▼ Why do women in golf wear those short/skirt things while the men wear pants? (lemmy.world) submitted 3 days ago by Patnou@lemmy.world to c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world 101 comments fedilink hide all child comments
[–] slazer2au@lemmy.world 62 points 3 days ago (3 children) Male gaze. Much like volleyball. permalink fedilink source hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] kadu@scribe.disroot.org 32 points 3 days ago* (3 children) Volleyball athletes were multiple times offered less revealing clothing and denied them because it actually harmed their performance, compared to the current standard. New efforts for streaming guidelines do limit certain close ups or angles, given the outfits, though. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 38 points 3 days ago (1 child) Y'know if that were true and it actually did give an advantage, you'd think the men would be wearing something similar too. You got a citation? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 49 points 3 days ago* (2 children) In Olympic beach volleyball, women have several options. More than the men in fact: The women can wear either a one-piece or two-piece bathing suit; shorts with sleeved or sleeveless tops; or a full body suit in cold weather. Due to the typically warm playing conditions, most opt for the two-piece. The men must wear shorts and a tank top. Players are allowed to wear hats and sunglasses. https://www.nbcolympics.com/news/beach-volleyball-101-olympic-equipment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world 28 points 3 days ago (3 children) This absolutely ignores sponsorship pressures. Men get millions of dollars playing in full clothes. Women have to wear bikinis just to ensure a few thousand dollars “because it sells more tickets”. Choice or not, there are structural cultural norms that nullify the offer of alternatives. Misogyny doesn't disappear just because you can choose different clothes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 38 points 3 days ago (1 child) https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8 https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/ Female volleyball players have said over and over and over again "we wear bikinis because we want to." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world -2 points 2 days ago* (1 child) Great, none of the articles mention the issue of sponsorship or the gender aspect of bias in sports regulations. By the way, it's not cool to link without reading the articles. Last month, bikini-wearing athletes again made headlines when the European Handball Federation fined Noway's beach handball team for wearing shorts rather than the required two-piece bathing suits. There are still problems with the lack of choice, why? Ultimately, the 2016 FIVB uniform guide actually offers more options for women than it does for men […] who are stuck with a tank top and shorts as their only style choice. Wouldn't it be interesting to try to understand why this is this way? “There are also certain times of the month that wearing a bikini isn’t always such a comfortable option, especially when you’re on TV.” Interesting testimony. Should we actually ask a follow up question to the person who said this to hear her opinion about why being on TV is a factor…Nope, too late, narrative is done, article is over. Like, seriously, I'm not talking about infantilizing women or restraining options. Quite the opposite. I'm talking about turning your damn brain on and actually look at the world with curiosity beyond the common places of thought terminating memes, cliches and manufactured narratives. It's not hard as long as you are focused on actually having healthy discussions instead of being obsessed with being right on the internet (the worst kind of right). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago* (1 child) I read all the articles. That lack of choice in handball and other sports should be addressed, and I hope it is soon. But in Olympic beach volleyball athletes have the choice and many choose to wear bikinis. I've never heard of a female athlete saying anything like "I feel pressured to choose more revealing uniforms because of sponsorships or cultural expectations from males." If you have, I'd love to see it. I have seen a bunch say that they prefer them, given the choice. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world 1 point 2 days ago* (1 child) Gee, I don't know. Let's see if that has been said anywhere, shall we? Sponsorships tell a similar story: men typically get $50,000 annually, while women make about $15,000. Where does the money come from? Organisations like FIVB have standardised payouts at major tournaments, but league salaries and endorsement deals remain uneven. Differences will persist until sponsors and broadcasters invest equally. Why would that this sponsor and broadcaster pay differently? One of the most significant problems female athletes face has nothing to do with the sport itself. It’s how they’re shown in the media. Far too often, the focus is on their appearance rather than on what they can do. In volleyball, that means more talk about kit choices or body image than actual skill or game stats. It’s frustrating when talent gets pushed aside for appearance. Would you look at that statement? Maybe there are things beyond the surface level that influence people's decision making at a structural level? Over the years, coverage has been overly sexualised, which hasn’t helped. That said, social media has started to shift things. What Women’s Volleyball Tells Us About Equality in Sport But what the hell do I know. I'm just a sociologist during his coffee break pondering about how invisible things like social constructs alter individual beliefs and decision making. I'll go back to work, bye. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago The pay gap between men and women exists in every professional sport and is a separate problem, although I can see your point about how it could influence decision making. This article also touches on the sexualization of female athletes in general, but at no point is the claim made that women who wear more revealing outfits are given better sponsorships nor is there any testimony from any athlete to back that up or to say they ever made those choices for that reason. permalink fedilink source parent [–] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 17 points 3 days ago (1 child) Olympic swimming is the opposite though, women are allowed to wear full suits, men aren't allowed to wear anything above the navel. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago Which begs the question. If the most efficient equipment to use is a full suit (remembering here the snark skin controversy), why are men not allowed to wear it, but women are. It is absolutely arbitrary and based on historical gender biases. But that is too complex for some idiots to digest. permalink fedilink source parent [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 13 points 3 days ago (1 child) I don’t understand this infantilizing of women. At least half the women at the gym and yoga studio are in sports bras. Should I tell them they are victims of male gaze and the tyranny of sponsorships, and they would be happier if they covered up more? Or are they adults who can dress themselves? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dustyData@lemmy.world -7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) No, why would you do that? It is extremely rude to comment on a person's body unprompted. They get to choose whatever they want to wear. That doesn't erase the reality of social pressures or its relevance when discussing genre politics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) You’re missing the point. They’re adults. Treat them as such. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world -2 points 2 days ago (1 child) Yes, they are adults. Stop talking about them like they don't exist, or like they are a single homogeneous lump of objects. It is entirely possible to discuss sociological concepts and political issues without insulting or infantilizing the people who are involved. Screaming “infantilizing” like a parrot is not an argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 3 points 2 days ago Are you okay? permalink fedilink source parent [+] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -8 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Since 2012, yes I'm aware. But that does not address anything I said. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Devadander@lemmy.world 21 points 3 days ago (1 child) It literally is the citation you asked for, dingus permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) and denied them because it actually harmed their performance, compared to the current standard. The part I responded to by saying "Y’know if that were true and it actually did give an advantage, you’d think the men would be wearing something similar too. " Your link says absolutely nothing about it being a competitive advantage - did you respond to the wrong person? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago (1 child) That's irrelevant. The point is they have a choice, and many choose to wear two pieces. Whether it's because they feel like they play better, or it's comfort, or even if they simply just like how they look. They're allowed to wear shorts and tank tops if they want. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) That’s irrelevant. No it's not. Especially when the initial topic was male gaze. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) As 2012 London beach volleyball silver medalist Jennifer Kessy explains it, the two-piece outfits make total sense from a performance perspective: “Our suits need to fit just right so they don’t move places we don’t want them to move. So how about this: Let’s call them competition suits or competition gear — then perhaps it won’t make people uncomfortable or there won’t be a stigma attached.” As a pro athlete, everyone has a different comfort level with either a bikini or one-piece bathing suit. Playing in a one-piece was never comfortable for me. It was restricting and limited my movements... It’s totally a personal choice. [A one piece] wasn’t comfortable for me. Way too sweaty and too much sand. But, in certain situations leggings could be a good option — just not in the heat. There are also certain times of the month that wearing a bikini isn’t always such a comfortable option, especially when you’re on TV. So it’s important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. Players should be able to wear what they want and what makes them perform the best — and for me it was a bikini. Emphasis mine. https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) I am aware they have options. That has never been in question. But, like your emphasis calls attention to, it's important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. So in the spirit of that, why are men not allowed the same freedom? Again, if it actually is a blanket improvement to a player's performance like the above person implied, you'd think that men would have adopted a similar outfit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I don't know. You'd have to take that up with the IOC. Males and females have different body types and maybe it's just not comfortable or practical for males to play volleyball in a banana hammock, or maybe they'd all love to, who knows. My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Though I suspect that at the Olympic level everyone is going to wear what they feel most comfortable and capable in, just like the player interviewed above. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Ah, I see. Unfortunately for this conversation, it's never been in question that since 2012 women's beach volleyball players have had the option of several less-revealing outfits. So in light of that, could you please tell me why you felt it was appropriate earlier to insult me when your cited article was evidently provided entirely to address your own thesis, but did not in any way address mine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I didn't insult you. Somebody else called you a dingus. But anyway here's a bunch of female volleyball players saying "we wear bikinis because we want to, they're more comfortable, etc" https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8 https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Ah, my apologies - I did not realize someone had lept in for one comment. And while abstractly interesting, those all continue to not address my thesis. They're addressing yours quite well, though. I applaud you for having such a well supported thesis. I do invite insight on this - perhaps the journal of ergonomics would be a better place to start looking than Business Insider though. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I'm not sure what you're looking for. If it's some kind of scientific paper on the effectiveness of different types of clothing on volleyball performance, you're not gonna find that. You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. I gave you, from a two minute internet search, a half dozen high-level female volleyball players who have all said they prefer to play in two pieces because of comfort and performance. Comfort itself is an advantage. Do you think that they're wrong? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -2 points 3 days ago* (3 children) You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. Where did I say this? It has never been the question I asked, but it has been the one you've answered and I've repeatedly clarified that it was not my question. It would be nice if that was my question - indeed, I think it even requires far less than two minutes to find an answer to. But it's not my question, nor has it at any point been. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 5 points 3 days ago* (1 child) We get it man, you hate bikinis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 3 days ago* (1 child) That's uh. Well, rather demonstrably wrong. On both points. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then Walks away looking confused and disappointed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you believe that female volleyball players who wear two pieces choose to do so because they feel more comfortable and more capable in that clothing? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago What? I've said yes twice now. What has that got to do with this? It's not, and has not been, my question. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent [–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 8 points 3 days ago (1 child) [citation needed] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] velma@sh.itjust.works 11 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Been that way since 2012 The International Volleyball Federation (FIVB) has said it will allow shorts and sleeved tops at the 2012 Games, along with the traditional bikinis and body suits already permitted. "Many of these countries have religious and cultural requirements so the uniform needed to be more flexible." FIVB spokesman Richard Baker told The Associated Press. The less revealing outfits were already permitted for the the five Continental Cups, through which 142 nations are competing to qualify for the London Games. "Winners of the Continental Cups will qualify for the Olympics, so it has to be applied," said Baker. The modified rule permits "shorts of a maximum length of three centimeters (1.18 inches) above the knee, and sleeved or sleeveless tops." And there were new guidelines for photography and video released this year: New “Raising the Bar” camera guidelines have been introduced in women’s athletics which advise broadcasters to consider more respectful angles when filming live female athletics competitions. The European Broadcasting Union (EBU), which provides sports coverage to more than a billion people across 57 countries, worked alongside female athletes to establish a new 23-page guide to try to help reduce the sexualisation of female athletes through certain camera angles. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] velma@sh.itjust.works 11 points 3 days ago The female beach handball players that staged a protest for wearing shorts in 2021 comes to mind for most people when talking about this topic. While not an Olympic sport, the Norway women's beach handball team took a similar stand when they wore shorts -- instead of the requisite bikini bottoms -- while competing at the Beach Handball EURO 2021 in Bulgaria earlier this month. The attire defied International Handball Federation regulations -- which require female beach handball players to wear sports bras and bikini bottoms, while men can wear tank tops and shorts -- and the Disciplinary Committee of the European Handball Federation fined the Norwegian Handball Federation 1,500 euros -- 150 euros for each player who wore shorts. permalink fedilink source parent [+] masterspace@lemmy.ca 3 points 3 days ago* [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent [–] daggermoon@piefed.world 4 points 3 days ago (1 child) Some males want to wear the skirts too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] velma@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) That's the beautiful part - men can wear skirts whenever they want, too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] daggermoon@piefed.world 2 points 3 days ago Most of us who want to are afraid to. permalink fedilink source parent [–] Patnou@lemmy.world [S] 2 points 3 days ago Maybe I guess I am sarcastic but a female using a club to hit a ball. Does not really draw my engine up. Maybe it is the whole club hitting a ball thing. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] kadu@scribe.disroot.org 32 points 3 days ago* (3 children) Volleyball athletes were multiple times offered less revealing clothing and denied them because it actually harmed their performance, compared to the current standard. New efforts for streaming guidelines do limit certain close ups or angles, given the outfits, though. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 38 points 3 days ago (1 child) Y'know if that were true and it actually did give an advantage, you'd think the men would be wearing something similar too. You got a citation? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 49 points 3 days ago* (2 children) In Olympic beach volleyball, women have several options. More than the men in fact: The women can wear either a one-piece or two-piece bathing suit; shorts with sleeved or sleeveless tops; or a full body suit in cold weather. Due to the typically warm playing conditions, most opt for the two-piece. The men must wear shorts and a tank top. Players are allowed to wear hats and sunglasses. https://www.nbcolympics.com/news/beach-volleyball-101-olympic-equipment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world 28 points 3 days ago (3 children) This absolutely ignores sponsorship pressures. Men get millions of dollars playing in full clothes. Women have to wear bikinis just to ensure a few thousand dollars “because it sells more tickets”. Choice or not, there are structural cultural norms that nullify the offer of alternatives. Misogyny doesn't disappear just because you can choose different clothes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 38 points 3 days ago (1 child) https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8 https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/ Female volleyball players have said over and over and over again "we wear bikinis because we want to." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world -2 points 2 days ago* (1 child) Great, none of the articles mention the issue of sponsorship or the gender aspect of bias in sports regulations. By the way, it's not cool to link without reading the articles. Last month, bikini-wearing athletes again made headlines when the European Handball Federation fined Noway's beach handball team for wearing shorts rather than the required two-piece bathing suits. There are still problems with the lack of choice, why? Ultimately, the 2016 FIVB uniform guide actually offers more options for women than it does for men […] who are stuck with a tank top and shorts as their only style choice. Wouldn't it be interesting to try to understand why this is this way? “There are also certain times of the month that wearing a bikini isn’t always such a comfortable option, especially when you’re on TV.” Interesting testimony. Should we actually ask a follow up question to the person who said this to hear her opinion about why being on TV is a factor…Nope, too late, narrative is done, article is over. Like, seriously, I'm not talking about infantilizing women or restraining options. Quite the opposite. I'm talking about turning your damn brain on and actually look at the world with curiosity beyond the common places of thought terminating memes, cliches and manufactured narratives. It's not hard as long as you are focused on actually having healthy discussions instead of being obsessed with being right on the internet (the worst kind of right). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago* (1 child) I read all the articles. That lack of choice in handball and other sports should be addressed, and I hope it is soon. But in Olympic beach volleyball athletes have the choice and many choose to wear bikinis. I've never heard of a female athlete saying anything like "I feel pressured to choose more revealing uniforms because of sponsorships or cultural expectations from males." If you have, I'd love to see it. I have seen a bunch say that they prefer them, given the choice. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world 1 point 2 days ago* (1 child) Gee, I don't know. Let's see if that has been said anywhere, shall we? Sponsorships tell a similar story: men typically get $50,000 annually, while women make about $15,000. Where does the money come from? Organisations like FIVB have standardised payouts at major tournaments, but league salaries and endorsement deals remain uneven. Differences will persist until sponsors and broadcasters invest equally. Why would that this sponsor and broadcaster pay differently? One of the most significant problems female athletes face has nothing to do with the sport itself. It’s how they’re shown in the media. Far too often, the focus is on their appearance rather than on what they can do. In volleyball, that means more talk about kit choices or body image than actual skill or game stats. It’s frustrating when talent gets pushed aside for appearance. Would you look at that statement? Maybe there are things beyond the surface level that influence people's decision making at a structural level? Over the years, coverage has been overly sexualised, which hasn’t helped. That said, social media has started to shift things. What Women’s Volleyball Tells Us About Equality in Sport But what the hell do I know. I'm just a sociologist during his coffee break pondering about how invisible things like social constructs alter individual beliefs and decision making. I'll go back to work, bye. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago The pay gap between men and women exists in every professional sport and is a separate problem, although I can see your point about how it could influence decision making. This article also touches on the sexualization of female athletes in general, but at no point is the claim made that women who wear more revealing outfits are given better sponsorships nor is there any testimony from any athlete to back that up or to say they ever made those choices for that reason. permalink fedilink source parent [–] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 17 points 3 days ago (1 child) Olympic swimming is the opposite though, women are allowed to wear full suits, men aren't allowed to wear anything above the navel. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago Which begs the question. If the most efficient equipment to use is a full suit (remembering here the snark skin controversy), why are men not allowed to wear it, but women are. It is absolutely arbitrary and based on historical gender biases. But that is too complex for some idiots to digest. permalink fedilink source parent [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 13 points 3 days ago (1 child) I don’t understand this infantilizing of women. At least half the women at the gym and yoga studio are in sports bras. Should I tell them they are victims of male gaze and the tyranny of sponsorships, and they would be happier if they covered up more? Or are they adults who can dress themselves? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dustyData@lemmy.world -7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) No, why would you do that? It is extremely rude to comment on a person's body unprompted. They get to choose whatever they want to wear. That doesn't erase the reality of social pressures or its relevance when discussing genre politics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) You’re missing the point. They’re adults. Treat them as such. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world -2 points 2 days ago (1 child) Yes, they are adults. Stop talking about them like they don't exist, or like they are a single homogeneous lump of objects. It is entirely possible to discuss sociological concepts and political issues without insulting or infantilizing the people who are involved. Screaming “infantilizing” like a parrot is not an argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 3 points 2 days ago Are you okay? permalink fedilink source parent [+] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -8 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Since 2012, yes I'm aware. But that does not address anything I said. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Devadander@lemmy.world 21 points 3 days ago (1 child) It literally is the citation you asked for, dingus permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) and denied them because it actually harmed their performance, compared to the current standard. The part I responded to by saying "Y’know if that were true and it actually did give an advantage, you’d think the men would be wearing something similar too. " Your link says absolutely nothing about it being a competitive advantage - did you respond to the wrong person? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago (1 child) That's irrelevant. The point is they have a choice, and many choose to wear two pieces. Whether it's because they feel like they play better, or it's comfort, or even if they simply just like how they look. They're allowed to wear shorts and tank tops if they want. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) That’s irrelevant. No it's not. Especially when the initial topic was male gaze. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) As 2012 London beach volleyball silver medalist Jennifer Kessy explains it, the two-piece outfits make total sense from a performance perspective: “Our suits need to fit just right so they don’t move places we don’t want them to move. So how about this: Let’s call them competition suits or competition gear — then perhaps it won’t make people uncomfortable or there won’t be a stigma attached.” As a pro athlete, everyone has a different comfort level with either a bikini or one-piece bathing suit. Playing in a one-piece was never comfortable for me. It was restricting and limited my movements... It’s totally a personal choice. [A one piece] wasn’t comfortable for me. Way too sweaty and too much sand. But, in certain situations leggings could be a good option — just not in the heat. There are also certain times of the month that wearing a bikini isn’t always such a comfortable option, especially when you’re on TV. So it’s important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. Players should be able to wear what they want and what makes them perform the best — and for me it was a bikini. Emphasis mine. https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) I am aware they have options. That has never been in question. But, like your emphasis calls attention to, it's important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. So in the spirit of that, why are men not allowed the same freedom? Again, if it actually is a blanket improvement to a player's performance like the above person implied, you'd think that men would have adopted a similar outfit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I don't know. You'd have to take that up with the IOC. Males and females have different body types and maybe it's just not comfortable or practical for males to play volleyball in a banana hammock, or maybe they'd all love to, who knows. My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Though I suspect that at the Olympic level everyone is going to wear what they feel most comfortable and capable in, just like the player interviewed above. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Ah, I see. Unfortunately for this conversation, it's never been in question that since 2012 women's beach volleyball players have had the option of several less-revealing outfits. So in light of that, could you please tell me why you felt it was appropriate earlier to insult me when your cited article was evidently provided entirely to address your own thesis, but did not in any way address mine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I didn't insult you. Somebody else called you a dingus. But anyway here's a bunch of female volleyball players saying "we wear bikinis because we want to, they're more comfortable, etc" https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8 https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Ah, my apologies - I did not realize someone had lept in for one comment. And while abstractly interesting, those all continue to not address my thesis. They're addressing yours quite well, though. I applaud you for having such a well supported thesis. I do invite insight on this - perhaps the journal of ergonomics would be a better place to start looking than Business Insider though. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I'm not sure what you're looking for. If it's some kind of scientific paper on the effectiveness of different types of clothing on volleyball performance, you're not gonna find that. You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. I gave you, from a two minute internet search, a half dozen high-level female volleyball players who have all said they prefer to play in two pieces because of comfort and performance. Comfort itself is an advantage. Do you think that they're wrong? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -2 points 3 days ago* (3 children) You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. Where did I say this? It has never been the question I asked, but it has been the one you've answered and I've repeatedly clarified that it was not my question. It would be nice if that was my question - indeed, I think it even requires far less than two minutes to find an answer to. But it's not my question, nor has it at any point been. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 5 points 3 days ago* (1 child) We get it man, you hate bikinis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 3 days ago* (1 child) That's uh. Well, rather demonstrably wrong. On both points. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then Walks away looking confused and disappointed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you believe that female volleyball players who wear two pieces choose to do so because they feel more comfortable and more capable in that clothing? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago What? I've said yes twice now. What has that got to do with this? It's not, and has not been, my question. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent [–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 8 points 3 days ago (1 child) [citation needed] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] velma@sh.itjust.works 11 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Been that way since 2012 The International Volleyball Federation (FIVB) has said it will allow shorts and sleeved tops at the 2012 Games, along with the traditional bikinis and body suits already permitted. "Many of these countries have religious and cultural requirements so the uniform needed to be more flexible." FIVB spokesman Richard Baker told The Associated Press. The less revealing outfits were already permitted for the the five Continental Cups, through which 142 nations are competing to qualify for the London Games. "Winners of the Continental Cups will qualify for the Olympics, so it has to be applied," said Baker. The modified rule permits "shorts of a maximum length of three centimeters (1.18 inches) above the knee, and sleeved or sleeveless tops." And there were new guidelines for photography and video released this year: New “Raising the Bar” camera guidelines have been introduced in women’s athletics which advise broadcasters to consider more respectful angles when filming live female athletics competitions. The European Broadcasting Union (EBU), which provides sports coverage to more than a billion people across 57 countries, worked alongside female athletes to establish a new 23-page guide to try to help reduce the sexualisation of female athletes through certain camera angles. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] velma@sh.itjust.works 11 points 3 days ago The female beach handball players that staged a protest for wearing shorts in 2021 comes to mind for most people when talking about this topic. While not an Olympic sport, the Norway women's beach handball team took a similar stand when they wore shorts -- instead of the requisite bikini bottoms -- while competing at the Beach Handball EURO 2021 in Bulgaria earlier this month. The attire defied International Handball Federation regulations -- which require female beach handball players to wear sports bras and bikini bottoms, while men can wear tank tops and shorts -- and the Disciplinary Committee of the European Handball Federation fined the Norwegian Handball Federation 1,500 euros -- 150 euros for each player who wore shorts. permalink fedilink source parent [+] masterspace@lemmy.ca 3 points 3 days ago* [deleted] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 38 points 3 days ago (1 child) Y'know if that were true and it actually did give an advantage, you'd think the men would be wearing something similar too. You got a citation? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 49 points 3 days ago* (2 children) In Olympic beach volleyball, women have several options. More than the men in fact: The women can wear either a one-piece or two-piece bathing suit; shorts with sleeved or sleeveless tops; or a full body suit in cold weather. Due to the typically warm playing conditions, most opt for the two-piece. The men must wear shorts and a tank top. Players are allowed to wear hats and sunglasses. https://www.nbcolympics.com/news/beach-volleyball-101-olympic-equipment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world 28 points 3 days ago (3 children) This absolutely ignores sponsorship pressures. Men get millions of dollars playing in full clothes. Women have to wear bikinis just to ensure a few thousand dollars “because it sells more tickets”. Choice or not, there are structural cultural norms that nullify the offer of alternatives. Misogyny doesn't disappear just because you can choose different clothes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 38 points 3 days ago (1 child) https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8 https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/ Female volleyball players have said over and over and over again "we wear bikinis because we want to." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world -2 points 2 days ago* (1 child) Great, none of the articles mention the issue of sponsorship or the gender aspect of bias in sports regulations. By the way, it's not cool to link without reading the articles. Last month, bikini-wearing athletes again made headlines when the European Handball Federation fined Noway's beach handball team for wearing shorts rather than the required two-piece bathing suits. There are still problems with the lack of choice, why? Ultimately, the 2016 FIVB uniform guide actually offers more options for women than it does for men […] who are stuck with a tank top and shorts as their only style choice. Wouldn't it be interesting to try to understand why this is this way? “There are also certain times of the month that wearing a bikini isn’t always such a comfortable option, especially when you’re on TV.” Interesting testimony. Should we actually ask a follow up question to the person who said this to hear her opinion about why being on TV is a factor…Nope, too late, narrative is done, article is over. Like, seriously, I'm not talking about infantilizing women or restraining options. Quite the opposite. I'm talking about turning your damn brain on and actually look at the world with curiosity beyond the common places of thought terminating memes, cliches and manufactured narratives. It's not hard as long as you are focused on actually having healthy discussions instead of being obsessed with being right on the internet (the worst kind of right). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago* (1 child) I read all the articles. That lack of choice in handball and other sports should be addressed, and I hope it is soon. But in Olympic beach volleyball athletes have the choice and many choose to wear bikinis. I've never heard of a female athlete saying anything like "I feel pressured to choose more revealing uniforms because of sponsorships or cultural expectations from males." If you have, I'd love to see it. I have seen a bunch say that they prefer them, given the choice. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world 1 point 2 days ago* (1 child) Gee, I don't know. Let's see if that has been said anywhere, shall we? Sponsorships tell a similar story: men typically get $50,000 annually, while women make about $15,000. Where does the money come from? Organisations like FIVB have standardised payouts at major tournaments, but league salaries and endorsement deals remain uneven. Differences will persist until sponsors and broadcasters invest equally. Why would that this sponsor and broadcaster pay differently? One of the most significant problems female athletes face has nothing to do with the sport itself. It’s how they’re shown in the media. Far too often, the focus is on their appearance rather than on what they can do. In volleyball, that means more talk about kit choices or body image than actual skill or game stats. It’s frustrating when talent gets pushed aside for appearance. Would you look at that statement? Maybe there are things beyond the surface level that influence people's decision making at a structural level? Over the years, coverage has been overly sexualised, which hasn’t helped. That said, social media has started to shift things. What Women’s Volleyball Tells Us About Equality in Sport But what the hell do I know. I'm just a sociologist during his coffee break pondering about how invisible things like social constructs alter individual beliefs and decision making. I'll go back to work, bye. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago The pay gap between men and women exists in every professional sport and is a separate problem, although I can see your point about how it could influence decision making. This article also touches on the sexualization of female athletes in general, but at no point is the claim made that women who wear more revealing outfits are given better sponsorships nor is there any testimony from any athlete to back that up or to say they ever made those choices for that reason. permalink fedilink source parent [–] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 17 points 3 days ago (1 child) Olympic swimming is the opposite though, women are allowed to wear full suits, men aren't allowed to wear anything above the navel. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago Which begs the question. If the most efficient equipment to use is a full suit (remembering here the snark skin controversy), why are men not allowed to wear it, but women are. It is absolutely arbitrary and based on historical gender biases. But that is too complex for some idiots to digest. permalink fedilink source parent [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 13 points 3 days ago (1 child) I don’t understand this infantilizing of women. At least half the women at the gym and yoga studio are in sports bras. Should I tell them they are victims of male gaze and the tyranny of sponsorships, and they would be happier if they covered up more? Or are they adults who can dress themselves? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dustyData@lemmy.world -7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) No, why would you do that? It is extremely rude to comment on a person's body unprompted. They get to choose whatever they want to wear. That doesn't erase the reality of social pressures or its relevance when discussing genre politics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) You’re missing the point. They’re adults. Treat them as such. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world -2 points 2 days ago (1 child) Yes, they are adults. Stop talking about them like they don't exist, or like they are a single homogeneous lump of objects. It is entirely possible to discuss sociological concepts and political issues without insulting or infantilizing the people who are involved. Screaming “infantilizing” like a parrot is not an argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 3 points 2 days ago Are you okay? permalink fedilink source parent [+] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -8 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Since 2012, yes I'm aware. But that does not address anything I said. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Devadander@lemmy.world 21 points 3 days ago (1 child) It literally is the citation you asked for, dingus permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) and denied them because it actually harmed their performance, compared to the current standard. The part I responded to by saying "Y’know if that were true and it actually did give an advantage, you’d think the men would be wearing something similar too. " Your link says absolutely nothing about it being a competitive advantage - did you respond to the wrong person? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago (1 child) That's irrelevant. The point is they have a choice, and many choose to wear two pieces. Whether it's because they feel like they play better, or it's comfort, or even if they simply just like how they look. They're allowed to wear shorts and tank tops if they want. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) That’s irrelevant. No it's not. Especially when the initial topic was male gaze. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) As 2012 London beach volleyball silver medalist Jennifer Kessy explains it, the two-piece outfits make total sense from a performance perspective: “Our suits need to fit just right so they don’t move places we don’t want them to move. So how about this: Let’s call them competition suits or competition gear — then perhaps it won’t make people uncomfortable or there won’t be a stigma attached.” As a pro athlete, everyone has a different comfort level with either a bikini or one-piece bathing suit. Playing in a one-piece was never comfortable for me. It was restricting and limited my movements... It’s totally a personal choice. [A one piece] wasn’t comfortable for me. Way too sweaty and too much sand. But, in certain situations leggings could be a good option — just not in the heat. There are also certain times of the month that wearing a bikini isn’t always such a comfortable option, especially when you’re on TV. So it’s important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. Players should be able to wear what they want and what makes them perform the best — and for me it was a bikini. Emphasis mine. https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) I am aware they have options. That has never been in question. But, like your emphasis calls attention to, it's important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. So in the spirit of that, why are men not allowed the same freedom? Again, if it actually is a blanket improvement to a player's performance like the above person implied, you'd think that men would have adopted a similar outfit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I don't know. You'd have to take that up with the IOC. Males and females have different body types and maybe it's just not comfortable or practical for males to play volleyball in a banana hammock, or maybe they'd all love to, who knows. My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Though I suspect that at the Olympic level everyone is going to wear what they feel most comfortable and capable in, just like the player interviewed above. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Ah, I see. Unfortunately for this conversation, it's never been in question that since 2012 women's beach volleyball players have had the option of several less-revealing outfits. So in light of that, could you please tell me why you felt it was appropriate earlier to insult me when your cited article was evidently provided entirely to address your own thesis, but did not in any way address mine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I didn't insult you. Somebody else called you a dingus. But anyway here's a bunch of female volleyball players saying "we wear bikinis because we want to, they're more comfortable, etc" https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8 https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Ah, my apologies - I did not realize someone had lept in for one comment. And while abstractly interesting, those all continue to not address my thesis. They're addressing yours quite well, though. I applaud you for having such a well supported thesis. I do invite insight on this - perhaps the journal of ergonomics would be a better place to start looking than Business Insider though. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I'm not sure what you're looking for. If it's some kind of scientific paper on the effectiveness of different types of clothing on volleyball performance, you're not gonna find that. You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. I gave you, from a two minute internet search, a half dozen high-level female volleyball players who have all said they prefer to play in two pieces because of comfort and performance. Comfort itself is an advantage. Do you think that they're wrong? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -2 points 3 days ago* (3 children) You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. Where did I say this? It has never been the question I asked, but it has been the one you've answered and I've repeatedly clarified that it was not my question. It would be nice if that was my question - indeed, I think it even requires far less than two minutes to find an answer to. But it's not my question, nor has it at any point been. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 5 points 3 days ago* (1 child) We get it man, you hate bikinis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 3 days ago* (1 child) That's uh. Well, rather demonstrably wrong. On both points. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then Walks away looking confused and disappointed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you believe that female volleyball players who wear two pieces choose to do so because they feel more comfortable and more capable in that clothing? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago What? I've said yes twice now. What has that got to do with this? It's not, and has not been, my question. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 49 points 3 days ago* (2 children) In Olympic beach volleyball, women have several options. More than the men in fact: The women can wear either a one-piece or two-piece bathing suit; shorts with sleeved or sleeveless tops; or a full body suit in cold weather. Due to the typically warm playing conditions, most opt for the two-piece. The men must wear shorts and a tank top. Players are allowed to wear hats and sunglasses. https://www.nbcolympics.com/news/beach-volleyball-101-olympic-equipment permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 4 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world 28 points 3 days ago (3 children) This absolutely ignores sponsorship pressures. Men get millions of dollars playing in full clothes. Women have to wear bikinis just to ensure a few thousand dollars “because it sells more tickets”. Choice or not, there are structural cultural norms that nullify the offer of alternatives. Misogyny doesn't disappear just because you can choose different clothes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 38 points 3 days ago (1 child) https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8 https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/ Female volleyball players have said over and over and over again "we wear bikinis because we want to." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world -2 points 2 days ago* (1 child) Great, none of the articles mention the issue of sponsorship or the gender aspect of bias in sports regulations. By the way, it's not cool to link without reading the articles. Last month, bikini-wearing athletes again made headlines when the European Handball Federation fined Noway's beach handball team for wearing shorts rather than the required two-piece bathing suits. There are still problems with the lack of choice, why? Ultimately, the 2016 FIVB uniform guide actually offers more options for women than it does for men […] who are stuck with a tank top and shorts as their only style choice. Wouldn't it be interesting to try to understand why this is this way? “There are also certain times of the month that wearing a bikini isn’t always such a comfortable option, especially when you’re on TV.” Interesting testimony. Should we actually ask a follow up question to the person who said this to hear her opinion about why being on TV is a factor…Nope, too late, narrative is done, article is over. Like, seriously, I'm not talking about infantilizing women or restraining options. Quite the opposite. I'm talking about turning your damn brain on and actually look at the world with curiosity beyond the common places of thought terminating memes, cliches and manufactured narratives. It's not hard as long as you are focused on actually having healthy discussions instead of being obsessed with being right on the internet (the worst kind of right). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago* (1 child) I read all the articles. That lack of choice in handball and other sports should be addressed, and I hope it is soon. But in Olympic beach volleyball athletes have the choice and many choose to wear bikinis. I've never heard of a female athlete saying anything like "I feel pressured to choose more revealing uniforms because of sponsorships or cultural expectations from males." If you have, I'd love to see it. I have seen a bunch say that they prefer them, given the choice. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world 1 point 2 days ago* (1 child) Gee, I don't know. Let's see if that has been said anywhere, shall we? Sponsorships tell a similar story: men typically get $50,000 annually, while women make about $15,000. Where does the money come from? Organisations like FIVB have standardised payouts at major tournaments, but league salaries and endorsement deals remain uneven. Differences will persist until sponsors and broadcasters invest equally. Why would that this sponsor and broadcaster pay differently? One of the most significant problems female athletes face has nothing to do with the sport itself. It’s how they’re shown in the media. Far too often, the focus is on their appearance rather than on what they can do. In volleyball, that means more talk about kit choices or body image than actual skill or game stats. It’s frustrating when talent gets pushed aside for appearance. Would you look at that statement? Maybe there are things beyond the surface level that influence people's decision making at a structural level? Over the years, coverage has been overly sexualised, which hasn’t helped. That said, social media has started to shift things. What Women’s Volleyball Tells Us About Equality in Sport But what the hell do I know. I'm just a sociologist during his coffee break pondering about how invisible things like social constructs alter individual beliefs and decision making. I'll go back to work, bye. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago The pay gap between men and women exists in every professional sport and is a separate problem, although I can see your point about how it could influence decision making. This article also touches on the sexualization of female athletes in general, but at no point is the claim made that women who wear more revealing outfits are given better sponsorships nor is there any testimony from any athlete to back that up or to say they ever made those choices for that reason. permalink fedilink source parent [–] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 17 points 3 days ago (1 child) Olympic swimming is the opposite though, women are allowed to wear full suits, men aren't allowed to wear anything above the navel. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago Which begs the question. If the most efficient equipment to use is a full suit (remembering here the snark skin controversy), why are men not allowed to wear it, but women are. It is absolutely arbitrary and based on historical gender biases. But that is too complex for some idiots to digest. permalink fedilink source parent [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 13 points 3 days ago (1 child) I don’t understand this infantilizing of women. At least half the women at the gym and yoga studio are in sports bras. Should I tell them they are victims of male gaze and the tyranny of sponsorships, and they would be happier if they covered up more? Or are they adults who can dress themselves? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dustyData@lemmy.world -7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) No, why would you do that? It is extremely rude to comment on a person's body unprompted. They get to choose whatever they want to wear. That doesn't erase the reality of social pressures or its relevance when discussing genre politics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) You’re missing the point. They’re adults. Treat them as such. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world -2 points 2 days ago (1 child) Yes, they are adults. Stop talking about them like they don't exist, or like they are a single homogeneous lump of objects. It is entirely possible to discuss sociological concepts and political issues without insulting or infantilizing the people who are involved. Screaming “infantilizing” like a parrot is not an argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 3 points 2 days ago Are you okay? permalink fedilink source parent [+] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -8 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Since 2012, yes I'm aware. But that does not address anything I said. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Devadander@lemmy.world 21 points 3 days ago (1 child) It literally is the citation you asked for, dingus permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) and denied them because it actually harmed their performance, compared to the current standard. The part I responded to by saying "Y’know if that were true and it actually did give an advantage, you’d think the men would be wearing something similar too. " Your link says absolutely nothing about it being a competitive advantage - did you respond to the wrong person? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago (1 child) That's irrelevant. The point is they have a choice, and many choose to wear two pieces. Whether it's because they feel like they play better, or it's comfort, or even if they simply just like how they look. They're allowed to wear shorts and tank tops if they want. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) That’s irrelevant. No it's not. Especially when the initial topic was male gaze. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) As 2012 London beach volleyball silver medalist Jennifer Kessy explains it, the two-piece outfits make total sense from a performance perspective: “Our suits need to fit just right so they don’t move places we don’t want them to move. So how about this: Let’s call them competition suits or competition gear — then perhaps it won’t make people uncomfortable or there won’t be a stigma attached.” As a pro athlete, everyone has a different comfort level with either a bikini or one-piece bathing suit. Playing in a one-piece was never comfortable for me. It was restricting and limited my movements... It’s totally a personal choice. [A one piece] wasn’t comfortable for me. Way too sweaty and too much sand. But, in certain situations leggings could be a good option — just not in the heat. There are also certain times of the month that wearing a bikini isn’t always such a comfortable option, especially when you’re on TV. So it’s important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. Players should be able to wear what they want and what makes them perform the best — and for me it was a bikini. Emphasis mine. https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) I am aware they have options. That has never been in question. But, like your emphasis calls attention to, it's important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. So in the spirit of that, why are men not allowed the same freedom? Again, if it actually is a blanket improvement to a player's performance like the above person implied, you'd think that men would have adopted a similar outfit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I don't know. You'd have to take that up with the IOC. Males and females have different body types and maybe it's just not comfortable or practical for males to play volleyball in a banana hammock, or maybe they'd all love to, who knows. My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Though I suspect that at the Olympic level everyone is going to wear what they feel most comfortable and capable in, just like the player interviewed above. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Ah, I see. Unfortunately for this conversation, it's never been in question that since 2012 women's beach volleyball players have had the option of several less-revealing outfits. So in light of that, could you please tell me why you felt it was appropriate earlier to insult me when your cited article was evidently provided entirely to address your own thesis, but did not in any way address mine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I didn't insult you. Somebody else called you a dingus. But anyway here's a bunch of female volleyball players saying "we wear bikinis because we want to, they're more comfortable, etc" https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8 https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Ah, my apologies - I did not realize someone had lept in for one comment. And while abstractly interesting, those all continue to not address my thesis. They're addressing yours quite well, though. I applaud you for having such a well supported thesis. I do invite insight on this - perhaps the journal of ergonomics would be a better place to start looking than Business Insider though. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I'm not sure what you're looking for. If it's some kind of scientific paper on the effectiveness of different types of clothing on volleyball performance, you're not gonna find that. You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. I gave you, from a two minute internet search, a half dozen high-level female volleyball players who have all said they prefer to play in two pieces because of comfort and performance. Comfort itself is an advantage. Do you think that they're wrong? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -2 points 3 days ago* (3 children) You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. Where did I say this? It has never been the question I asked, but it has been the one you've answered and I've repeatedly clarified that it was not my question. It would be nice if that was my question - indeed, I think it even requires far less than two minutes to find an answer to. But it's not my question, nor has it at any point been. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 5 points 3 days ago* (1 child) We get it man, you hate bikinis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 3 days ago* (1 child) That's uh. Well, rather demonstrably wrong. On both points. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then Walks away looking confused and disappointed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you believe that female volleyball players who wear two pieces choose to do so because they feel more comfortable and more capable in that clothing? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago What? I've said yes twice now. What has that got to do with this? It's not, and has not been, my question. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 28 points 3 days ago (3 children) This absolutely ignores sponsorship pressures. Men get millions of dollars playing in full clothes. Women have to wear bikinis just to ensure a few thousand dollars “because it sells more tickets”. Choice or not, there are structural cultural norms that nullify the offer of alternatives. Misogyny doesn't disappear just because you can choose different clothes. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 38 points 3 days ago (1 child) https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8 https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/ Female volleyball players have said over and over and over again "we wear bikinis because we want to." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world -2 points 2 days ago* (1 child) Great, none of the articles mention the issue of sponsorship or the gender aspect of bias in sports regulations. By the way, it's not cool to link without reading the articles. Last month, bikini-wearing athletes again made headlines when the European Handball Federation fined Noway's beach handball team for wearing shorts rather than the required two-piece bathing suits. There are still problems with the lack of choice, why? Ultimately, the 2016 FIVB uniform guide actually offers more options for women than it does for men […] who are stuck with a tank top and shorts as their only style choice. Wouldn't it be interesting to try to understand why this is this way? “There are also certain times of the month that wearing a bikini isn’t always such a comfortable option, especially when you’re on TV.” Interesting testimony. Should we actually ask a follow up question to the person who said this to hear her opinion about why being on TV is a factor…Nope, too late, narrative is done, article is over. Like, seriously, I'm not talking about infantilizing women or restraining options. Quite the opposite. I'm talking about turning your damn brain on and actually look at the world with curiosity beyond the common places of thought terminating memes, cliches and manufactured narratives. It's not hard as long as you are focused on actually having healthy discussions instead of being obsessed with being right on the internet (the worst kind of right). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago* (1 child) I read all the articles. That lack of choice in handball and other sports should be addressed, and I hope it is soon. But in Olympic beach volleyball athletes have the choice and many choose to wear bikinis. I've never heard of a female athlete saying anything like "I feel pressured to choose more revealing uniforms because of sponsorships or cultural expectations from males." If you have, I'd love to see it. I have seen a bunch say that they prefer them, given the choice. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world 1 point 2 days ago* (1 child) Gee, I don't know. Let's see if that has been said anywhere, shall we? Sponsorships tell a similar story: men typically get $50,000 annually, while women make about $15,000. Where does the money come from? Organisations like FIVB have standardised payouts at major tournaments, but league salaries and endorsement deals remain uneven. Differences will persist until sponsors and broadcasters invest equally. Why would that this sponsor and broadcaster pay differently? One of the most significant problems female athletes face has nothing to do with the sport itself. It’s how they’re shown in the media. Far too often, the focus is on their appearance rather than on what they can do. In volleyball, that means more talk about kit choices or body image than actual skill or game stats. It’s frustrating when talent gets pushed aside for appearance. Would you look at that statement? Maybe there are things beyond the surface level that influence people's decision making at a structural level? Over the years, coverage has been overly sexualised, which hasn’t helped. That said, social media has started to shift things. What Women’s Volleyball Tells Us About Equality in Sport But what the hell do I know. I'm just a sociologist during his coffee break pondering about how invisible things like social constructs alter individual beliefs and decision making. I'll go back to work, bye. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago The pay gap between men and women exists in every professional sport and is a separate problem, although I can see your point about how it could influence decision making. This article also touches on the sexualization of female athletes in general, but at no point is the claim made that women who wear more revealing outfits are given better sponsorships nor is there any testimony from any athlete to back that up or to say they ever made those choices for that reason. permalink fedilink source parent [–] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 17 points 3 days ago (1 child) Olympic swimming is the opposite though, women are allowed to wear full suits, men aren't allowed to wear anything above the navel. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago Which begs the question. If the most efficient equipment to use is a full suit (remembering here the snark skin controversy), why are men not allowed to wear it, but women are. It is absolutely arbitrary and based on historical gender biases. But that is too complex for some idiots to digest. permalink fedilink source parent [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 13 points 3 days ago (1 child) I don’t understand this infantilizing of women. At least half the women at the gym and yoga studio are in sports bras. Should I tell them they are victims of male gaze and the tyranny of sponsorships, and they would be happier if they covered up more? Or are they adults who can dress themselves? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dustyData@lemmy.world -7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) No, why would you do that? It is extremely rude to comment on a person's body unprompted. They get to choose whatever they want to wear. That doesn't erase the reality of social pressures or its relevance when discussing genre politics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) You’re missing the point. They’re adults. Treat them as such. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world -2 points 2 days ago (1 child) Yes, they are adults. Stop talking about them like they don't exist, or like they are a single homogeneous lump of objects. It is entirely possible to discuss sociological concepts and political issues without insulting or infantilizing the people who are involved. Screaming “infantilizing” like a parrot is not an argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 3 points 2 days ago Are you okay? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 38 points 3 days ago (1 child) https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8 https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/ Female volleyball players have said over and over and over again "we wear bikinis because we want to." permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world -2 points 2 days ago* (1 child) Great, none of the articles mention the issue of sponsorship or the gender aspect of bias in sports regulations. By the way, it's not cool to link without reading the articles. Last month, bikini-wearing athletes again made headlines when the European Handball Federation fined Noway's beach handball team for wearing shorts rather than the required two-piece bathing suits. There are still problems with the lack of choice, why? Ultimately, the 2016 FIVB uniform guide actually offers more options for women than it does for men […] who are stuck with a tank top and shorts as their only style choice. Wouldn't it be interesting to try to understand why this is this way? “There are also certain times of the month that wearing a bikini isn’t always such a comfortable option, especially when you’re on TV.” Interesting testimony. Should we actually ask a follow up question to the person who said this to hear her opinion about why being on TV is a factor…Nope, too late, narrative is done, article is over. Like, seriously, I'm not talking about infantilizing women or restraining options. Quite the opposite. I'm talking about turning your damn brain on and actually look at the world with curiosity beyond the common places of thought terminating memes, cliches and manufactured narratives. It's not hard as long as you are focused on actually having healthy discussions instead of being obsessed with being right on the internet (the worst kind of right). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago* (1 child) I read all the articles. That lack of choice in handball and other sports should be addressed, and I hope it is soon. But in Olympic beach volleyball athletes have the choice and many choose to wear bikinis. I've never heard of a female athlete saying anything like "I feel pressured to choose more revealing uniforms because of sponsorships or cultural expectations from males." If you have, I'd love to see it. I have seen a bunch say that they prefer them, given the choice. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world 1 point 2 days ago* (1 child) Gee, I don't know. Let's see if that has been said anywhere, shall we? Sponsorships tell a similar story: men typically get $50,000 annually, while women make about $15,000. Where does the money come from? Organisations like FIVB have standardised payouts at major tournaments, but league salaries and endorsement deals remain uneven. Differences will persist until sponsors and broadcasters invest equally. Why would that this sponsor and broadcaster pay differently? One of the most significant problems female athletes face has nothing to do with the sport itself. It’s how they’re shown in the media. Far too often, the focus is on their appearance rather than on what they can do. In volleyball, that means more talk about kit choices or body image than actual skill or game stats. It’s frustrating when talent gets pushed aside for appearance. Would you look at that statement? Maybe there are things beyond the surface level that influence people's decision making at a structural level? Over the years, coverage has been overly sexualised, which hasn’t helped. That said, social media has started to shift things. What Women’s Volleyball Tells Us About Equality in Sport But what the hell do I know. I'm just a sociologist during his coffee break pondering about how invisible things like social constructs alter individual beliefs and decision making. I'll go back to work, bye. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago The pay gap between men and women exists in every professional sport and is a separate problem, although I can see your point about how it could influence decision making. This article also touches on the sexualization of female athletes in general, but at no point is the claim made that women who wear more revealing outfits are given better sponsorships nor is there any testimony from any athlete to back that up or to say they ever made those choices for that reason. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dustyData@lemmy.world -2 points 2 days ago* (1 child) Great, none of the articles mention the issue of sponsorship or the gender aspect of bias in sports regulations. By the way, it's not cool to link without reading the articles. Last month, bikini-wearing athletes again made headlines when the European Handball Federation fined Noway's beach handball team for wearing shorts rather than the required two-piece bathing suits. There are still problems with the lack of choice, why? Ultimately, the 2016 FIVB uniform guide actually offers more options for women than it does for men […] who are stuck with a tank top and shorts as their only style choice. Wouldn't it be interesting to try to understand why this is this way? “There are also certain times of the month that wearing a bikini isn’t always such a comfortable option, especially when you’re on TV.” Interesting testimony. Should we actually ask a follow up question to the person who said this to hear her opinion about why being on TV is a factor…Nope, too late, narrative is done, article is over. Like, seriously, I'm not talking about infantilizing women or restraining options. Quite the opposite. I'm talking about turning your damn brain on and actually look at the world with curiosity beyond the common places of thought terminating memes, cliches and manufactured narratives. It's not hard as long as you are focused on actually having healthy discussions instead of being obsessed with being right on the internet (the worst kind of right). permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago* (1 child) I read all the articles. That lack of choice in handball and other sports should be addressed, and I hope it is soon. But in Olympic beach volleyball athletes have the choice and many choose to wear bikinis. I've never heard of a female athlete saying anything like "I feel pressured to choose more revealing uniforms because of sponsorships or cultural expectations from males." If you have, I'd love to see it. I have seen a bunch say that they prefer them, given the choice. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world 1 point 2 days ago* (1 child) Gee, I don't know. Let's see if that has been said anywhere, shall we? Sponsorships tell a similar story: men typically get $50,000 annually, while women make about $15,000. Where does the money come from? Organisations like FIVB have standardised payouts at major tournaments, but league salaries and endorsement deals remain uneven. Differences will persist until sponsors and broadcasters invest equally. Why would that this sponsor and broadcaster pay differently? One of the most significant problems female athletes face has nothing to do with the sport itself. It’s how they’re shown in the media. Far too often, the focus is on their appearance rather than on what they can do. In volleyball, that means more talk about kit choices or body image than actual skill or game stats. It’s frustrating when talent gets pushed aside for appearance. Would you look at that statement? Maybe there are things beyond the surface level that influence people's decision making at a structural level? Over the years, coverage has been overly sexualised, which hasn’t helped. That said, social media has started to shift things. What Women’s Volleyball Tells Us About Equality in Sport But what the hell do I know. I'm just a sociologist during his coffee break pondering about how invisible things like social constructs alter individual beliefs and decision making. I'll go back to work, bye. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago The pay gap between men and women exists in every professional sport and is a separate problem, although I can see your point about how it could influence decision making. This article also touches on the sexualization of female athletes in general, but at no point is the claim made that women who wear more revealing outfits are given better sponsorships nor is there any testimony from any athlete to back that up or to say they ever made those choices for that reason. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago* (1 child) I read all the articles. That lack of choice in handball and other sports should be addressed, and I hope it is soon. But in Olympic beach volleyball athletes have the choice and many choose to wear bikinis. I've never heard of a female athlete saying anything like "I feel pressured to choose more revealing uniforms because of sponsorships or cultural expectations from males." If you have, I'd love to see it. I have seen a bunch say that they prefer them, given the choice. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world 1 point 2 days ago* (1 child) Gee, I don't know. Let's see if that has been said anywhere, shall we? Sponsorships tell a similar story: men typically get $50,000 annually, while women make about $15,000. Where does the money come from? Organisations like FIVB have standardised payouts at major tournaments, but league salaries and endorsement deals remain uneven. Differences will persist until sponsors and broadcasters invest equally. Why would that this sponsor and broadcaster pay differently? One of the most significant problems female athletes face has nothing to do with the sport itself. It’s how they’re shown in the media. Far too often, the focus is on their appearance rather than on what they can do. In volleyball, that means more talk about kit choices or body image than actual skill or game stats. It’s frustrating when talent gets pushed aside for appearance. Would you look at that statement? Maybe there are things beyond the surface level that influence people's decision making at a structural level? Over the years, coverage has been overly sexualised, which hasn’t helped. That said, social media has started to shift things. What Women’s Volleyball Tells Us About Equality in Sport But what the hell do I know. I'm just a sociologist during his coffee break pondering about how invisible things like social constructs alter individual beliefs and decision making. I'll go back to work, bye. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago The pay gap between men and women exists in every professional sport and is a separate problem, although I can see your point about how it could influence decision making. This article also touches on the sexualization of female athletes in general, but at no point is the claim made that women who wear more revealing outfits are given better sponsorships nor is there any testimony from any athlete to back that up or to say they ever made those choices for that reason. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 1 point 2 days ago* (1 child) Gee, I don't know. Let's see if that has been said anywhere, shall we? Sponsorships tell a similar story: men typically get $50,000 annually, while women make about $15,000. Where does the money come from? Organisations like FIVB have standardised payouts at major tournaments, but league salaries and endorsement deals remain uneven. Differences will persist until sponsors and broadcasters invest equally. Why would that this sponsor and broadcaster pay differently? One of the most significant problems female athletes face has nothing to do with the sport itself. It’s how they’re shown in the media. Far too often, the focus is on their appearance rather than on what they can do. In volleyball, that means more talk about kit choices or body image than actual skill or game stats. It’s frustrating when talent gets pushed aside for appearance. Would you look at that statement? Maybe there are things beyond the surface level that influence people's decision making at a structural level? Over the years, coverage has been overly sexualised, which hasn’t helped. That said, social media has started to shift things. What Women’s Volleyball Tells Us About Equality in Sport But what the hell do I know. I'm just a sociologist during his coffee break pondering about how invisible things like social constructs alter individual beliefs and decision making. I'll go back to work, bye. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago The pay gap between men and women exists in every professional sport and is a separate problem, although I can see your point about how it could influence decision making. This article also touches on the sexualization of female athletes in general, but at no point is the claim made that women who wear more revealing outfits are given better sponsorships nor is there any testimony from any athlete to back that up or to say they ever made those choices for that reason. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago The pay gap between men and women exists in every professional sport and is a separate problem, although I can see your point about how it could influence decision making. This article also touches on the sexualization of female athletes in general, but at no point is the claim made that women who wear more revealing outfits are given better sponsorships nor is there any testimony from any athlete to back that up or to say they ever made those choices for that reason. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 17 points 3 days ago (1 child) Olympic swimming is the opposite though, women are allowed to wear full suits, men aren't allowed to wear anything above the navel. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago Which begs the question. If the most efficient equipment to use is a full suit (remembering here the snark skin controversy), why are men not allowed to wear it, but women are. It is absolutely arbitrary and based on historical gender biases. But that is too complex for some idiots to digest. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago Which begs the question. If the most efficient equipment to use is a full suit (remembering here the snark skin controversy), why are men not allowed to wear it, but women are. It is absolutely arbitrary and based on historical gender biases. But that is too complex for some idiots to digest. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 13 points 3 days ago (1 child) I don’t understand this infantilizing of women. At least half the women at the gym and yoga studio are in sports bras. Should I tell them they are victims of male gaze and the tyranny of sponsorships, and they would be happier if they covered up more? Or are they adults who can dress themselves? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [+] dustyData@lemmy.world -7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) No, why would you do that? It is extremely rude to comment on a person's body unprompted. They get to choose whatever they want to wear. That doesn't erase the reality of social pressures or its relevance when discussing genre politics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) You’re missing the point. They’re adults. Treat them as such. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world -2 points 2 days ago (1 child) Yes, they are adults. Stop talking about them like they don't exist, or like they are a single homogeneous lump of objects. It is entirely possible to discuss sociological concepts and political issues without insulting or infantilizing the people who are involved. Screaming “infantilizing” like a parrot is not an argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 3 points 2 days ago Are you okay? permalink fedilink source parent
[+] dustyData@lemmy.world -7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) No, why would you do that? It is extremely rude to comment on a person's body unprompted. They get to choose whatever they want to wear. That doesn't erase the reality of social pressures or its relevance when discussing genre politics. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) You’re missing the point. They’re adults. Treat them as such. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world -2 points 2 days ago (1 child) Yes, they are adults. Stop talking about them like they don't exist, or like they are a single homogeneous lump of objects. It is entirely possible to discuss sociological concepts and political issues without insulting or infantilizing the people who are involved. Screaming “infantilizing” like a parrot is not an argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 3 points 2 days ago Are you okay? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) You’re missing the point. They’re adults. Treat them as such. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] dustyData@lemmy.world -2 points 2 days ago (1 child) Yes, they are adults. Stop talking about them like they don't exist, or like they are a single homogeneous lump of objects. It is entirely possible to discuss sociological concepts and political issues without insulting or infantilizing the people who are involved. Screaming “infantilizing” like a parrot is not an argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 3 points 2 days ago Are you okay? permalink fedilink source parent
[–] dustyData@lemmy.world -2 points 2 days ago (1 child) Yes, they are adults. Stop talking about them like they don't exist, or like they are a single homogeneous lump of objects. It is entirely possible to discuss sociological concepts and political issues without insulting or infantilizing the people who are involved. Screaming “infantilizing” like a parrot is not an argument. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.cafe 3 points 2 days ago Are you okay? permalink fedilink source parent
[+] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -8 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Since 2012, yes I'm aware. But that does not address anything I said. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Devadander@lemmy.world 21 points 3 days ago (1 child) It literally is the citation you asked for, dingus permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) and denied them because it actually harmed their performance, compared to the current standard. The part I responded to by saying "Y’know if that were true and it actually did give an advantage, you’d think the men would be wearing something similar too. " Your link says absolutely nothing about it being a competitive advantage - did you respond to the wrong person? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago (1 child) That's irrelevant. The point is they have a choice, and many choose to wear two pieces. Whether it's because they feel like they play better, or it's comfort, or even if they simply just like how they look. They're allowed to wear shorts and tank tops if they want. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) That’s irrelevant. No it's not. Especially when the initial topic was male gaze. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) As 2012 London beach volleyball silver medalist Jennifer Kessy explains it, the two-piece outfits make total sense from a performance perspective: “Our suits need to fit just right so they don’t move places we don’t want them to move. So how about this: Let’s call them competition suits or competition gear — then perhaps it won’t make people uncomfortable or there won’t be a stigma attached.” As a pro athlete, everyone has a different comfort level with either a bikini or one-piece bathing suit. Playing in a one-piece was never comfortable for me. It was restricting and limited my movements... It’s totally a personal choice. [A one piece] wasn’t comfortable for me. Way too sweaty and too much sand. But, in certain situations leggings could be a good option — just not in the heat. There are also certain times of the month that wearing a bikini isn’t always such a comfortable option, especially when you’re on TV. So it’s important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. Players should be able to wear what they want and what makes them perform the best — and for me it was a bikini. Emphasis mine. https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) I am aware they have options. That has never been in question. But, like your emphasis calls attention to, it's important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. So in the spirit of that, why are men not allowed the same freedom? Again, if it actually is a blanket improvement to a player's performance like the above person implied, you'd think that men would have adopted a similar outfit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I don't know. You'd have to take that up with the IOC. Males and females have different body types and maybe it's just not comfortable or practical for males to play volleyball in a banana hammock, or maybe they'd all love to, who knows. My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Though I suspect that at the Olympic level everyone is going to wear what they feel most comfortable and capable in, just like the player interviewed above. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Ah, I see. Unfortunately for this conversation, it's never been in question that since 2012 women's beach volleyball players have had the option of several less-revealing outfits. So in light of that, could you please tell me why you felt it was appropriate earlier to insult me when your cited article was evidently provided entirely to address your own thesis, but did not in any way address mine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I didn't insult you. Somebody else called you a dingus. But anyway here's a bunch of female volleyball players saying "we wear bikinis because we want to, they're more comfortable, etc" https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8 https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Ah, my apologies - I did not realize someone had lept in for one comment. And while abstractly interesting, those all continue to not address my thesis. They're addressing yours quite well, though. I applaud you for having such a well supported thesis. I do invite insight on this - perhaps the journal of ergonomics would be a better place to start looking than Business Insider though. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I'm not sure what you're looking for. If it's some kind of scientific paper on the effectiveness of different types of clothing on volleyball performance, you're not gonna find that. You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. I gave you, from a two minute internet search, a half dozen high-level female volleyball players who have all said they prefer to play in two pieces because of comfort and performance. Comfort itself is an advantage. Do you think that they're wrong? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -2 points 3 days ago* (3 children) You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. Where did I say this? It has never been the question I asked, but it has been the one you've answered and I've repeatedly clarified that it was not my question. It would be nice if that was my question - indeed, I think it even requires far less than two minutes to find an answer to. But it's not my question, nor has it at any point been. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 5 points 3 days ago* (1 child) We get it man, you hate bikinis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 3 days ago* (1 child) That's uh. Well, rather demonstrably wrong. On both points. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then Walks away looking confused and disappointed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you believe that female volleyball players who wear two pieces choose to do so because they feel more comfortable and more capable in that clothing? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago What? I've said yes twice now. What has that got to do with this? It's not, and has not been, my question. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Devadander@lemmy.world 21 points 3 days ago (1 child) It literally is the citation you asked for, dingus permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) and denied them because it actually harmed their performance, compared to the current standard. The part I responded to by saying "Y’know if that were true and it actually did give an advantage, you’d think the men would be wearing something similar too. " Your link says absolutely nothing about it being a competitive advantage - did you respond to the wrong person? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago (1 child) That's irrelevant. The point is they have a choice, and many choose to wear two pieces. Whether it's because they feel like they play better, or it's comfort, or even if they simply just like how they look. They're allowed to wear shorts and tank tops if they want. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) That’s irrelevant. No it's not. Especially when the initial topic was male gaze. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) As 2012 London beach volleyball silver medalist Jennifer Kessy explains it, the two-piece outfits make total sense from a performance perspective: “Our suits need to fit just right so they don’t move places we don’t want them to move. So how about this: Let’s call them competition suits or competition gear — then perhaps it won’t make people uncomfortable or there won’t be a stigma attached.” As a pro athlete, everyone has a different comfort level with either a bikini or one-piece bathing suit. Playing in a one-piece was never comfortable for me. It was restricting and limited my movements... It’s totally a personal choice. [A one piece] wasn’t comfortable for me. Way too sweaty and too much sand. But, in certain situations leggings could be a good option — just not in the heat. There are also certain times of the month that wearing a bikini isn’t always such a comfortable option, especially when you’re on TV. So it’s important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. Players should be able to wear what they want and what makes them perform the best — and for me it was a bikini. Emphasis mine. https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) I am aware they have options. That has never been in question. But, like your emphasis calls attention to, it's important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. So in the spirit of that, why are men not allowed the same freedom? Again, if it actually is a blanket improvement to a player's performance like the above person implied, you'd think that men would have adopted a similar outfit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I don't know. You'd have to take that up with the IOC. Males and females have different body types and maybe it's just not comfortable or practical for males to play volleyball in a banana hammock, or maybe they'd all love to, who knows. My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Though I suspect that at the Olympic level everyone is going to wear what they feel most comfortable and capable in, just like the player interviewed above. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Ah, I see. Unfortunately for this conversation, it's never been in question that since 2012 women's beach volleyball players have had the option of several less-revealing outfits. So in light of that, could you please tell me why you felt it was appropriate earlier to insult me when your cited article was evidently provided entirely to address your own thesis, but did not in any way address mine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I didn't insult you. Somebody else called you a dingus. But anyway here's a bunch of female volleyball players saying "we wear bikinis because we want to, they're more comfortable, etc" https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8 https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Ah, my apologies - I did not realize someone had lept in for one comment. And while abstractly interesting, those all continue to not address my thesis. They're addressing yours quite well, though. I applaud you for having such a well supported thesis. I do invite insight on this - perhaps the journal of ergonomics would be a better place to start looking than Business Insider though. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I'm not sure what you're looking for. If it's some kind of scientific paper on the effectiveness of different types of clothing on volleyball performance, you're not gonna find that. You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. I gave you, from a two minute internet search, a half dozen high-level female volleyball players who have all said they prefer to play in two pieces because of comfort and performance. Comfort itself is an advantage. Do you think that they're wrong? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -2 points 3 days ago* (3 children) You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. Where did I say this? It has never been the question I asked, but it has been the one you've answered and I've repeatedly clarified that it was not my question. It would be nice if that was my question - indeed, I think it even requires far less than two minutes to find an answer to. But it's not my question, nor has it at any point been. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 5 points 3 days ago* (1 child) We get it man, you hate bikinis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 3 days ago* (1 child) That's uh. Well, rather demonstrably wrong. On both points. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then Walks away looking confused and disappointed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you believe that female volleyball players who wear two pieces choose to do so because they feel more comfortable and more capable in that clothing? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago What? I've said yes twice now. What has that got to do with this? It's not, and has not been, my question. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) and denied them because it actually harmed their performance, compared to the current standard. The part I responded to by saying "Y’know if that were true and it actually did give an advantage, you’d think the men would be wearing something similar too. " Your link says absolutely nothing about it being a competitive advantage - did you respond to the wrong person? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago (1 child) That's irrelevant. The point is they have a choice, and many choose to wear two pieces. Whether it's because they feel like they play better, or it's comfort, or even if they simply just like how they look. They're allowed to wear shorts and tank tops if they want. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) That’s irrelevant. No it's not. Especially when the initial topic was male gaze. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) As 2012 London beach volleyball silver medalist Jennifer Kessy explains it, the two-piece outfits make total sense from a performance perspective: “Our suits need to fit just right so they don’t move places we don’t want them to move. So how about this: Let’s call them competition suits or competition gear — then perhaps it won’t make people uncomfortable or there won’t be a stigma attached.” As a pro athlete, everyone has a different comfort level with either a bikini or one-piece bathing suit. Playing in a one-piece was never comfortable for me. It was restricting and limited my movements... It’s totally a personal choice. [A one piece] wasn’t comfortable for me. Way too sweaty and too much sand. But, in certain situations leggings could be a good option — just not in the heat. There are also certain times of the month that wearing a bikini isn’t always such a comfortable option, especially when you’re on TV. So it’s important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. Players should be able to wear what they want and what makes them perform the best — and for me it was a bikini. Emphasis mine. https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) I am aware they have options. That has never been in question. But, like your emphasis calls attention to, it's important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. So in the spirit of that, why are men not allowed the same freedom? Again, if it actually is a blanket improvement to a player's performance like the above person implied, you'd think that men would have adopted a similar outfit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I don't know. You'd have to take that up with the IOC. Males and females have different body types and maybe it's just not comfortable or practical for males to play volleyball in a banana hammock, or maybe they'd all love to, who knows. My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Though I suspect that at the Olympic level everyone is going to wear what they feel most comfortable and capable in, just like the player interviewed above. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Ah, I see. Unfortunately for this conversation, it's never been in question that since 2012 women's beach volleyball players have had the option of several less-revealing outfits. So in light of that, could you please tell me why you felt it was appropriate earlier to insult me when your cited article was evidently provided entirely to address your own thesis, but did not in any way address mine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I didn't insult you. Somebody else called you a dingus. But anyway here's a bunch of female volleyball players saying "we wear bikinis because we want to, they're more comfortable, etc" https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8 https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Ah, my apologies - I did not realize someone had lept in for one comment. And while abstractly interesting, those all continue to not address my thesis. They're addressing yours quite well, though. I applaud you for having such a well supported thesis. I do invite insight on this - perhaps the journal of ergonomics would be a better place to start looking than Business Insider though. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I'm not sure what you're looking for. If it's some kind of scientific paper on the effectiveness of different types of clothing on volleyball performance, you're not gonna find that. You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. I gave you, from a two minute internet search, a half dozen high-level female volleyball players who have all said they prefer to play in two pieces because of comfort and performance. Comfort itself is an advantage. Do you think that they're wrong? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -2 points 3 days ago* (3 children) You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. Where did I say this? It has never been the question I asked, but it has been the one you've answered and I've repeatedly clarified that it was not my question. It would be nice if that was my question - indeed, I think it even requires far less than two minutes to find an answer to. But it's not my question, nor has it at any point been. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 5 points 3 days ago* (1 child) We get it man, you hate bikinis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 3 days ago* (1 child) That's uh. Well, rather demonstrably wrong. On both points. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then Walks away looking confused and disappointed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you believe that female volleyball players who wear two pieces choose to do so because they feel more comfortable and more capable in that clothing? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago What? I've said yes twice now. What has that got to do with this? It's not, and has not been, my question. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago (1 child) That's irrelevant. The point is they have a choice, and many choose to wear two pieces. Whether it's because they feel like they play better, or it's comfort, or even if they simply just like how they look. They're allowed to wear shorts and tank tops if they want. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) That’s irrelevant. No it's not. Especially when the initial topic was male gaze. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) As 2012 London beach volleyball silver medalist Jennifer Kessy explains it, the two-piece outfits make total sense from a performance perspective: “Our suits need to fit just right so they don’t move places we don’t want them to move. So how about this: Let’s call them competition suits or competition gear — then perhaps it won’t make people uncomfortable or there won’t be a stigma attached.” As a pro athlete, everyone has a different comfort level with either a bikini or one-piece bathing suit. Playing in a one-piece was never comfortable for me. It was restricting and limited my movements... It’s totally a personal choice. [A one piece] wasn’t comfortable for me. Way too sweaty and too much sand. But, in certain situations leggings could be a good option — just not in the heat. There are also certain times of the month that wearing a bikini isn’t always such a comfortable option, especially when you’re on TV. So it’s important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. Players should be able to wear what they want and what makes them perform the best — and for me it was a bikini. Emphasis mine. https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) I am aware they have options. That has never been in question. But, like your emphasis calls attention to, it's important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. So in the spirit of that, why are men not allowed the same freedom? Again, if it actually is a blanket improvement to a player's performance like the above person implied, you'd think that men would have adopted a similar outfit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I don't know. You'd have to take that up with the IOC. Males and females have different body types and maybe it's just not comfortable or practical for males to play volleyball in a banana hammock, or maybe they'd all love to, who knows. My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Though I suspect that at the Olympic level everyone is going to wear what they feel most comfortable and capable in, just like the player interviewed above. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Ah, I see. Unfortunately for this conversation, it's never been in question that since 2012 women's beach volleyball players have had the option of several less-revealing outfits. So in light of that, could you please tell me why you felt it was appropriate earlier to insult me when your cited article was evidently provided entirely to address your own thesis, but did not in any way address mine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I didn't insult you. Somebody else called you a dingus. But anyway here's a bunch of female volleyball players saying "we wear bikinis because we want to, they're more comfortable, etc" https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8 https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Ah, my apologies - I did not realize someone had lept in for one comment. And while abstractly interesting, those all continue to not address my thesis. They're addressing yours quite well, though. I applaud you for having such a well supported thesis. I do invite insight on this - perhaps the journal of ergonomics would be a better place to start looking than Business Insider though. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I'm not sure what you're looking for. If it's some kind of scientific paper on the effectiveness of different types of clothing on volleyball performance, you're not gonna find that. You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. I gave you, from a two minute internet search, a half dozen high-level female volleyball players who have all said they prefer to play in two pieces because of comfort and performance. Comfort itself is an advantage. Do you think that they're wrong? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -2 points 3 days ago* (3 children) You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. Where did I say this? It has never been the question I asked, but it has been the one you've answered and I've repeatedly clarified that it was not my question. It would be nice if that was my question - indeed, I think it even requires far less than two minutes to find an answer to. But it's not my question, nor has it at any point been. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 5 points 3 days ago* (1 child) We get it man, you hate bikinis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 3 days ago* (1 child) That's uh. Well, rather demonstrably wrong. On both points. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then Walks away looking confused and disappointed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you believe that female volleyball players who wear two pieces choose to do so because they feel more comfortable and more capable in that clothing? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago What? I've said yes twice now. What has that got to do with this? It's not, and has not been, my question. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) That’s irrelevant. No it's not. Especially when the initial topic was male gaze. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) As 2012 London beach volleyball silver medalist Jennifer Kessy explains it, the two-piece outfits make total sense from a performance perspective: “Our suits need to fit just right so they don’t move places we don’t want them to move. So how about this: Let’s call them competition suits or competition gear — then perhaps it won’t make people uncomfortable or there won’t be a stigma attached.” As a pro athlete, everyone has a different comfort level with either a bikini or one-piece bathing suit. Playing in a one-piece was never comfortable for me. It was restricting and limited my movements... It’s totally a personal choice. [A one piece] wasn’t comfortable for me. Way too sweaty and too much sand. But, in certain situations leggings could be a good option — just not in the heat. There are also certain times of the month that wearing a bikini isn’t always such a comfortable option, especially when you’re on TV. So it’s important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. Players should be able to wear what they want and what makes them perform the best — and for me it was a bikini. Emphasis mine. https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) I am aware they have options. That has never been in question. But, like your emphasis calls attention to, it's important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. So in the spirit of that, why are men not allowed the same freedom? Again, if it actually is a blanket improvement to a player's performance like the above person implied, you'd think that men would have adopted a similar outfit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I don't know. You'd have to take that up with the IOC. Males and females have different body types and maybe it's just not comfortable or practical for males to play volleyball in a banana hammock, or maybe they'd all love to, who knows. My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Though I suspect that at the Olympic level everyone is going to wear what they feel most comfortable and capable in, just like the player interviewed above. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Ah, I see. Unfortunately for this conversation, it's never been in question that since 2012 women's beach volleyball players have had the option of several less-revealing outfits. So in light of that, could you please tell me why you felt it was appropriate earlier to insult me when your cited article was evidently provided entirely to address your own thesis, but did not in any way address mine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I didn't insult you. Somebody else called you a dingus. But anyway here's a bunch of female volleyball players saying "we wear bikinis because we want to, they're more comfortable, etc" https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8 https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Ah, my apologies - I did not realize someone had lept in for one comment. And while abstractly interesting, those all continue to not address my thesis. They're addressing yours quite well, though. I applaud you for having such a well supported thesis. I do invite insight on this - perhaps the journal of ergonomics would be a better place to start looking than Business Insider though. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I'm not sure what you're looking for. If it's some kind of scientific paper on the effectiveness of different types of clothing on volleyball performance, you're not gonna find that. You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. I gave you, from a two minute internet search, a half dozen high-level female volleyball players who have all said they prefer to play in two pieces because of comfort and performance. Comfort itself is an advantage. Do you think that they're wrong? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -2 points 3 days ago* (3 children) You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. Where did I say this? It has never been the question I asked, but it has been the one you've answered and I've repeatedly clarified that it was not my question. It would be nice if that was my question - indeed, I think it even requires far less than two minutes to find an answer to. But it's not my question, nor has it at any point been. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 5 points 3 days ago* (1 child) We get it man, you hate bikinis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 3 days ago* (1 child) That's uh. Well, rather demonstrably wrong. On both points. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then Walks away looking confused and disappointed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you believe that female volleyball players who wear two pieces choose to do so because they feel more comfortable and more capable in that clothing? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago What? I've said yes twice now. What has that got to do with this? It's not, and has not been, my question. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) As 2012 London beach volleyball silver medalist Jennifer Kessy explains it, the two-piece outfits make total sense from a performance perspective: “Our suits need to fit just right so they don’t move places we don’t want them to move. So how about this: Let’s call them competition suits or competition gear — then perhaps it won’t make people uncomfortable or there won’t be a stigma attached.” As a pro athlete, everyone has a different comfort level with either a bikini or one-piece bathing suit. Playing in a one-piece was never comfortable for me. It was restricting and limited my movements... It’s totally a personal choice. [A one piece] wasn’t comfortable for me. Way too sweaty and too much sand. But, in certain situations leggings could be a good option — just not in the heat. There are also certain times of the month that wearing a bikini isn’t always such a comfortable option, especially when you’re on TV. So it’s important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. Players should be able to wear what they want and what makes them perform the best — and for me it was a bikini. Emphasis mine. https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) I am aware they have options. That has never been in question. But, like your emphasis calls attention to, it's important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. So in the spirit of that, why are men not allowed the same freedom? Again, if it actually is a blanket improvement to a player's performance like the above person implied, you'd think that men would have adopted a similar outfit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I don't know. You'd have to take that up with the IOC. Males and females have different body types and maybe it's just not comfortable or practical for males to play volleyball in a banana hammock, or maybe they'd all love to, who knows. My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Though I suspect that at the Olympic level everyone is going to wear what they feel most comfortable and capable in, just like the player interviewed above. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Ah, I see. Unfortunately for this conversation, it's never been in question that since 2012 women's beach volleyball players have had the option of several less-revealing outfits. So in light of that, could you please tell me why you felt it was appropriate earlier to insult me when your cited article was evidently provided entirely to address your own thesis, but did not in any way address mine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I didn't insult you. Somebody else called you a dingus. But anyway here's a bunch of female volleyball players saying "we wear bikinis because we want to, they're more comfortable, etc" https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8 https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Ah, my apologies - I did not realize someone had lept in for one comment. And while abstractly interesting, those all continue to not address my thesis. They're addressing yours quite well, though. I applaud you for having such a well supported thesis. I do invite insight on this - perhaps the journal of ergonomics would be a better place to start looking than Business Insider though. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I'm not sure what you're looking for. If it's some kind of scientific paper on the effectiveness of different types of clothing on volleyball performance, you're not gonna find that. You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. I gave you, from a two minute internet search, a half dozen high-level female volleyball players who have all said they prefer to play in two pieces because of comfort and performance. Comfort itself is an advantage. Do you think that they're wrong? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -2 points 3 days ago* (3 children) You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. Where did I say this? It has never been the question I asked, but it has been the one you've answered and I've repeatedly clarified that it was not my question. It would be nice if that was my question - indeed, I think it even requires far less than two minutes to find an answer to. But it's not my question, nor has it at any point been. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 5 points 3 days ago* (1 child) We get it man, you hate bikinis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 3 days ago* (1 child) That's uh. Well, rather demonstrably wrong. On both points. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then Walks away looking confused and disappointed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you believe that female volleyball players who wear two pieces choose to do so because they feel more comfortable and more capable in that clothing? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago What? I've said yes twice now. What has that got to do with this? It's not, and has not been, my question. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -3 points 3 days ago* (1 child) I am aware they have options. That has never been in question. But, like your emphasis calls attention to, it's important to have the freedom to choose what works best for you. So in the spirit of that, why are men not allowed the same freedom? Again, if it actually is a blanket improvement to a player's performance like the above person implied, you'd think that men would have adopted a similar outfit. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I don't know. You'd have to take that up with the IOC. Males and females have different body types and maybe it's just not comfortable or practical for males to play volleyball in a banana hammock, or maybe they'd all love to, who knows. My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Though I suspect that at the Olympic level everyone is going to wear what they feel most comfortable and capable in, just like the player interviewed above. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Ah, I see. Unfortunately for this conversation, it's never been in question that since 2012 women's beach volleyball players have had the option of several less-revealing outfits. So in light of that, could you please tell me why you felt it was appropriate earlier to insult me when your cited article was evidently provided entirely to address your own thesis, but did not in any way address mine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I didn't insult you. Somebody else called you a dingus. But anyway here's a bunch of female volleyball players saying "we wear bikinis because we want to, they're more comfortable, etc" https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8 https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Ah, my apologies - I did not realize someone had lept in for one comment. And while abstractly interesting, those all continue to not address my thesis. They're addressing yours quite well, though. I applaud you for having such a well supported thesis. I do invite insight on this - perhaps the journal of ergonomics would be a better place to start looking than Business Insider though. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I'm not sure what you're looking for. If it's some kind of scientific paper on the effectiveness of different types of clothing on volleyball performance, you're not gonna find that. You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. I gave you, from a two minute internet search, a half dozen high-level female volleyball players who have all said they prefer to play in two pieces because of comfort and performance. Comfort itself is an advantage. Do you think that they're wrong? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -2 points 3 days ago* (3 children) You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. Where did I say this? It has never been the question I asked, but it has been the one you've answered and I've repeatedly clarified that it was not my question. It would be nice if that was my question - indeed, I think it even requires far less than two minutes to find an answer to. But it's not my question, nor has it at any point been. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 5 points 3 days ago* (1 child) We get it man, you hate bikinis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 3 days ago* (1 child) That's uh. Well, rather demonstrably wrong. On both points. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then Walks away looking confused and disappointed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you believe that female volleyball players who wear two pieces choose to do so because they feel more comfortable and more capable in that clothing? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago What? I've said yes twice now. What has that got to do with this? It's not, and has not been, my question. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I don't know. You'd have to take that up with the IOC. Males and females have different body types and maybe it's just not comfortable or practical for males to play volleyball in a banana hammock, or maybe they'd all love to, who knows. My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Though I suspect that at the Olympic level everyone is going to wear what they feel most comfortable and capable in, just like the player interviewed above. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Ah, I see. Unfortunately for this conversation, it's never been in question that since 2012 women's beach volleyball players have had the option of several less-revealing outfits. So in light of that, could you please tell me why you felt it was appropriate earlier to insult me when your cited article was evidently provided entirely to address your own thesis, but did not in any way address mine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I didn't insult you. Somebody else called you a dingus. But anyway here's a bunch of female volleyball players saying "we wear bikinis because we want to, they're more comfortable, etc" https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8 https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Ah, my apologies - I did not realize someone had lept in for one comment. And while abstractly interesting, those all continue to not address my thesis. They're addressing yours quite well, though. I applaud you for having such a well supported thesis. I do invite insight on this - perhaps the journal of ergonomics would be a better place to start looking than Business Insider though. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I'm not sure what you're looking for. If it's some kind of scientific paper on the effectiveness of different types of clothing on volleyball performance, you're not gonna find that. You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. I gave you, from a two minute internet search, a half dozen high-level female volleyball players who have all said they prefer to play in two pieces because of comfort and performance. Comfort itself is an advantage. Do you think that they're wrong? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -2 points 3 days ago* (3 children) You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. Where did I say this? It has never been the question I asked, but it has been the one you've answered and I've repeatedly clarified that it was not my question. It would be nice if that was my question - indeed, I think it even requires far less than two minutes to find an answer to. But it's not my question, nor has it at any point been. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 5 points 3 days ago* (1 child) We get it man, you hate bikinis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 3 days ago* (1 child) That's uh. Well, rather demonstrably wrong. On both points. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then Walks away looking confused and disappointed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you believe that female volleyball players who wear two pieces choose to do so because they feel more comfortable and more capable in that clothing? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago What? I've said yes twice now. What has that got to do with this? It's not, and has not been, my question. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) My thesis statement here is that the female athletes who choose to wear bikinis are choosing to of their own free will, and whatever reasoning a person has to wear what they wear is their own business. Ah, I see. Unfortunately for this conversation, it's never been in question that since 2012 women's beach volleyball players have had the option of several less-revealing outfits. So in light of that, could you please tell me why you felt it was appropriate earlier to insult me when your cited article was evidently provided entirely to address your own thesis, but did not in any way address mine? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I didn't insult you. Somebody else called you a dingus. But anyway here's a bunch of female volleyball players saying "we wear bikinis because we want to, they're more comfortable, etc" https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8 https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Ah, my apologies - I did not realize someone had lept in for one comment. And while abstractly interesting, those all continue to not address my thesis. They're addressing yours quite well, though. I applaud you for having such a well supported thesis. I do invite insight on this - perhaps the journal of ergonomics would be a better place to start looking than Business Insider though. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I'm not sure what you're looking for. If it's some kind of scientific paper on the effectiveness of different types of clothing on volleyball performance, you're not gonna find that. You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. I gave you, from a two minute internet search, a half dozen high-level female volleyball players who have all said they prefer to play in two pieces because of comfort and performance. Comfort itself is an advantage. Do you think that they're wrong? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -2 points 3 days ago* (3 children) You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. Where did I say this? It has never been the question I asked, but it has been the one you've answered and I've repeatedly clarified that it was not my question. It would be nice if that was my question - indeed, I think it even requires far less than two minutes to find an answer to. But it's not my question, nor has it at any point been. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 5 points 3 days ago* (1 child) We get it man, you hate bikinis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 3 days ago* (1 child) That's uh. Well, rather demonstrably wrong. On both points. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then Walks away looking confused and disappointed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you believe that female volleyball players who wear two pieces choose to do so because they feel more comfortable and more capable in that clothing? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago What? I've said yes twice now. What has that got to do with this? It's not, and has not been, my question. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 9 points 3 days ago (1 child) I didn't insult you. Somebody else called you a dingus. But anyway here's a bunch of female volleyball players saying "we wear bikinis because we want to, they're more comfortable, etc" https://www.today.com/news/why-do-women-s-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-today-t226134 https://www.businessinsider.com/why-do-women-beach-volleyball-players-wear-bikinis-olympics-2016-8 https://people.com/sports/beach-volleyball-olympians-react-bikini-controversy/ permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Ah, my apologies - I did not realize someone had lept in for one comment. And while abstractly interesting, those all continue to not address my thesis. They're addressing yours quite well, though. I applaud you for having such a well supported thesis. I do invite insight on this - perhaps the journal of ergonomics would be a better place to start looking than Business Insider though. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I'm not sure what you're looking for. If it's some kind of scientific paper on the effectiveness of different types of clothing on volleyball performance, you're not gonna find that. You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. I gave you, from a two minute internet search, a half dozen high-level female volleyball players who have all said they prefer to play in two pieces because of comfort and performance. Comfort itself is an advantage. Do you think that they're wrong? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -2 points 3 days ago* (3 children) You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. Where did I say this? It has never been the question I asked, but it has been the one you've answered and I've repeatedly clarified that it was not my question. It would be nice if that was my question - indeed, I think it even requires far less than two minutes to find an answer to. But it's not my question, nor has it at any point been. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 5 points 3 days ago* (1 child) We get it man, you hate bikinis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 3 days ago* (1 child) That's uh. Well, rather demonstrably wrong. On both points. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then Walks away looking confused and disappointed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you believe that female volleyball players who wear two pieces choose to do so because they feel more comfortable and more capable in that clothing? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago What? I've said yes twice now. What has that got to do with this? It's not, and has not been, my question. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Ah, my apologies - I did not realize someone had lept in for one comment. And while abstractly interesting, those all continue to not address my thesis. They're addressing yours quite well, though. I applaud you for having such a well supported thesis. I do invite insight on this - perhaps the journal of ergonomics would be a better place to start looking than Business Insider though. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I'm not sure what you're looking for. If it's some kind of scientific paper on the effectiveness of different types of clothing on volleyball performance, you're not gonna find that. You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. I gave you, from a two minute internet search, a half dozen high-level female volleyball players who have all said they prefer to play in two pieces because of comfort and performance. Comfort itself is an advantage. Do you think that they're wrong? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -2 points 3 days ago* (3 children) You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. Where did I say this? It has never been the question I asked, but it has been the one you've answered and I've repeatedly clarified that it was not my question. It would be nice if that was my question - indeed, I think it even requires far less than two minutes to find an answer to. But it's not my question, nor has it at any point been. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 5 points 3 days ago* (1 child) We get it man, you hate bikinis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 3 days ago* (1 child) That's uh. Well, rather demonstrably wrong. On both points. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then Walks away looking confused and disappointed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you believe that female volleyball players who wear two pieces choose to do so because they feel more comfortable and more capable in that clothing? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago What? I've said yes twice now. What has that got to do with this? It's not, and has not been, my question. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 child) I'm not sure what you're looking for. If it's some kind of scientific paper on the effectiveness of different types of clothing on volleyball performance, you're not gonna find that. You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. I gave you, from a two minute internet search, a half dozen high-level female volleyball players who have all said they prefer to play in two pieces because of comfort and performance. Comfort itself is an advantage. Do you think that they're wrong? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -2 points 3 days ago* (3 children) You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. Where did I say this? It has never been the question I asked, but it has been the one you've answered and I've repeatedly clarified that it was not my question. It would be nice if that was my question - indeed, I think it even requires far less than two minutes to find an answer to. But it's not my question, nor has it at any point been. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 5 points 3 days ago* (1 child) We get it man, you hate bikinis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 3 days ago* (1 child) That's uh. Well, rather demonstrably wrong. On both points. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then Walks away looking confused and disappointed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you believe that female volleyball players who wear two pieces choose to do so because they feel more comfortable and more capable in that clothing? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago What? I've said yes twice now. What has that got to do with this? It's not, and has not been, my question. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world -2 points 3 days ago* (3 children) You said you were skeptical of two pieces being better for performance than other clothing. Where did I say this? It has never been the question I asked, but it has been the one you've answered and I've repeatedly clarified that it was not my question. It would be nice if that was my question - indeed, I think it even requires far less than two minutes to find an answer to. But it's not my question, nor has it at any point been. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 6 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 5 points 3 days ago* (1 child) We get it man, you hate bikinis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 3 days ago* (1 child) That's uh. Well, rather demonstrably wrong. On both points. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then Walks away looking confused and disappointed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent [–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you believe that female volleyball players who wear two pieces choose to do so because they feel more comfortable and more capable in that clothing? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago What? I've said yes twice now. What has that got to do with this? It's not, and has not been, my question. permalink fedilink source parent [+] lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world -1 points 3 days ago [removed by mod] permalink fedilink source parent
[–] content_educator_94 5 points 3 days ago* (1 child) We get it man, you hate bikinis permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 3 days ago* (1 child) That's uh. Well, rather demonstrably wrong. On both points. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then Walks away looking confused and disappointed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 1 point 3 days ago* (1 child) That's uh. Well, rather demonstrably wrong. On both points. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] content_educator_94 7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then Walks away looking confused and disappointed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] content_educator_94 7 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Damn, I'm not reading the room well, pardon me then Walks away looking confused and disappointed permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (Sorry - It's a reference to my post history. You may need to turn on NSFW photos to get the joke, I know some clients block them by default.) I'm all for the reason they wear them being exhibitionism (clearly) but that's never been what I've said. They're answering the question "are female beach vollyball players forced to wear bikinis", an easy question to answer and one I've never asked; what I asked was "if they're clearly a performance enhancement, why are the men not wearing them too?" which is a much more difficult thing to get an answer for. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] cattywampas@lemmy.world 0 points 3 days ago (1 child) Do you believe that female volleyball players who wear two pieces choose to do so because they feel more comfortable and more capable in that clothing? permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago What? I've said yes twice now. What has that got to do with this? It's not, and has not been, my question. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Warl0k3@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago What? I've said yes twice now. What has that got to do with this? It's not, and has not been, my question. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 8 points 3 days ago (1 child) [citation needed] permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] velma@sh.itjust.works 11 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Been that way since 2012 The International Volleyball Federation (FIVB) has said it will allow shorts and sleeved tops at the 2012 Games, along with the traditional bikinis and body suits already permitted. "Many of these countries have religious and cultural requirements so the uniform needed to be more flexible." FIVB spokesman Richard Baker told The Associated Press. The less revealing outfits were already permitted for the the five Continental Cups, through which 142 nations are competing to qualify for the London Games. "Winners of the Continental Cups will qualify for the Olympics, so it has to be applied," said Baker. The modified rule permits "shorts of a maximum length of three centimeters (1.18 inches) above the knee, and sleeved or sleeveless tops." And there were new guidelines for photography and video released this year: New “Raising the Bar” camera guidelines have been introduced in women’s athletics which advise broadcasters to consider more respectful angles when filming live female athletics competitions. The European Broadcasting Union (EBU), which provides sports coverage to more than a billion people across 57 countries, worked alongside female athletes to establish a new 23-page guide to try to help reduce the sexualisation of female athletes through certain camera angles. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] velma@sh.itjust.works 11 points 3 days ago The female beach handball players that staged a protest for wearing shorts in 2021 comes to mind for most people when talking about this topic. While not an Olympic sport, the Norway women's beach handball team took a similar stand when they wore shorts -- instead of the requisite bikini bottoms -- while competing at the Beach Handball EURO 2021 in Bulgaria earlier this month. The attire defied International Handball Federation regulations -- which require female beach handball players to wear sports bras and bikini bottoms, while men can wear tank tops and shorts -- and the Disciplinary Committee of the European Handball Federation fined the Norwegian Handball Federation 1,500 euros -- 150 euros for each player who wore shorts. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 11 points 3 days ago* (1 child) Been that way since 2012 The International Volleyball Federation (FIVB) has said it will allow shorts and sleeved tops at the 2012 Games, along with the traditional bikinis and body suits already permitted. "Many of these countries have religious and cultural requirements so the uniform needed to be more flexible." FIVB spokesman Richard Baker told The Associated Press. The less revealing outfits were already permitted for the the five Continental Cups, through which 142 nations are competing to qualify for the London Games. "Winners of the Continental Cups will qualify for the Olympics, so it has to be applied," said Baker. The modified rule permits "shorts of a maximum length of three centimeters (1.18 inches) above the knee, and sleeved or sleeveless tops." And there were new guidelines for photography and video released this year: New “Raising the Bar” camera guidelines have been introduced in women’s athletics which advise broadcasters to consider more respectful angles when filming live female athletics competitions. The European Broadcasting Union (EBU), which provides sports coverage to more than a billion people across 57 countries, worked alongside female athletes to establish a new 23-page guide to try to help reduce the sexualisation of female athletes through certain camera angles. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] velma@sh.itjust.works 11 points 3 days ago The female beach handball players that staged a protest for wearing shorts in 2021 comes to mind for most people when talking about this topic. While not an Olympic sport, the Norway women's beach handball team took a similar stand when they wore shorts -- instead of the requisite bikini bottoms -- while competing at the Beach Handball EURO 2021 in Bulgaria earlier this month. The attire defied International Handball Federation regulations -- which require female beach handball players to wear sports bras and bikini bottoms, while men can wear tank tops and shorts -- and the Disciplinary Committee of the European Handball Federation fined the Norwegian Handball Federation 1,500 euros -- 150 euros for each player who wore shorts. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 11 points 3 days ago The female beach handball players that staged a protest for wearing shorts in 2021 comes to mind for most people when talking about this topic. While not an Olympic sport, the Norway women's beach handball team took a similar stand when they wore shorts -- instead of the requisite bikini bottoms -- while competing at the Beach Handball EURO 2021 in Bulgaria earlier this month. The attire defied International Handball Federation regulations -- which require female beach handball players to wear sports bras and bikini bottoms, while men can wear tank tops and shorts -- and the Disciplinary Committee of the European Handball Federation fined the Norwegian Handball Federation 1,500 euros -- 150 euros for each player who wore shorts. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] daggermoon@piefed.world 4 points 3 days ago (1 child) Some males want to wear the skirts too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] velma@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) That's the beautiful part - men can wear skirts whenever they want, too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] daggermoon@piefed.world 2 points 3 days ago Most of us who want to are afraid to. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 days ago (1 child) That's the beautiful part - men can wear skirts whenever they want, too. permalink fedilink source parent hideshow 2 child comments replies: [–] daggermoon@piefed.world 2 points 3 days ago Most of us who want to are afraid to. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] daggermoon@piefed.world 2 points 3 days ago Most of us who want to are afraid to. permalink fedilink source parent
[–] Patnou@lemmy.world [S] 2 points 3 days ago Maybe I guess I am sarcastic but a female using a club to hit a ball. Does not really draw my engine up. Maybe it is the whole club hitting a ball thing. permalink fedilink source parent