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[–] 59 points 3 weeks ago (19 children)

I'm here about the title.

The local jury

Grand jury.

He was immediately released

Yes, that's how this works.

Now, bear in mind, I'm only here about the part of this from the title that I quoted. For anyone outraged by that part, no.

The way this works:

  1. A matter is put before a grand jury. Only evidence submitted is by the prosecutor. Nothing from the defense. The standard of evidence is "probable cause", which is a very very low standard. Basically, unless someone screwed something up massively, there will almost always be sufficient probable cause for a case to go forward.

  2. If probable cause is indeed found, the case will proceed. It may eventually have a trial by jury, where both sides present their case and a jury decides - for civil matters the standard is preponderance of the evidence (i.e. majority of evidence seems guilty or not), for criminal it's beyond a reasonable doubt, meaning it seems pretty clear and any evidence that is against seems unlikely.

So speaking generally, when indictment in front of a grand jury fails, it means one of something like these happened:

  1. Fundamental evidence failed "probable cause". For example, say it resulted from a traffic stop, but it was found that the traffic stop had no legal justification. Because of "fruit of the forbidden tree", it might be entirely thrown out
  2. Perhaps the prosecutors failed to get their shit together on evidence
  3. Perhaps, as is theorized by some in this case, the prosecutor felt they had to present the case, but threw it on purpose, sort of like a prosecutorial nullification, if you will

So again, not talking about the case (I've discussed/debated in other threads - this is not a new story), just the parts of the title that make it clear OP doesn't understand the difference between a jury and a grand jury. :)

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  • [–] 31 points 3 weeks ago

    do also note, that if the prosecution doesn’t like the results of the grand jury he can just keep doing it over until he gets the answer he wants… unless he is actually not trying for a conviction.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 weeks ago (16 children)

    Originating in England during the Middle Ages, modern examples include grand juries in the United States, and to a lesser extent, Liberia. wp

    Sounds like a modern and reasonable institution.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago (15 children)

    Would you prefer the case go to trial before it's established if there's sufficient probable cause? Or if only the state gets to make that determination?

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    Given that grand jury indictment rates are like >90%, what’s actually being achieved here?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (9 children)
  • [–] 0 points 3 weeks ago (8 children)
  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago* (7 children)

    Almost every other jurisdiction in functional democracies do not have grand juries and don't plan to implement such a mechanism, nor are they implored to do so, are they all bootlickers?

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  • [–] 0 points 3 weeks ago* (6 children)

    Yes. Yes they are. Anyone who wants more government control of the justice system, and less accountability to the people, is a bootlicker. People in those countries are expected to trust that the state did it's due diligence before putting someone on trial, and as the right sweeps these countries they're going to learn why that's a mistake.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

    one of the faces of American exceptionalism

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago* (4 children)

    "America does one thing right" != "America does everything right". The courts are the only thing holding Trump in check right now. Whats going to put a check on a European trump?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    Separation of power still works with a populist leader when a strong constitution is in place.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    Then by all means, cede all of your power to the state. Good luck.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago* (1 child)

    You are right, I’m no theorist, but there is a reason it has mostly worked so far. And as if a coup for absolute power would stop at the grand jury. It is also only protected by „just“ another court.

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