The whole argument about whether or not the Zionist entity is white supremacist or jewish supremacist seems pointless to me.

it's very obviously both

The whole argument about whether or not the Zionist entity is white supremacist or jewish supremacist seems pointless to me. Neither ideology is the cause of the genocide, which is caused by material relationships and conditions. What material condition? European settler-colonialism.

I feel the need to make a pedantic but necessary correction. Ideology is an objective force, is itself a material condition to the extent that it influences human activity. White supremacy and Jewish supremacy are not only ideology. In the apartheid, they are the social reality. Constructing a Jewish apartheid state creates Jewish supremacist ideology which then reproduces itself through further material and ideological development. It cannot be reduced merely to European settler-colonialism because it is not an abstract European settler-colonial state, but a specifically Zionist one. In my opinion we must take care to understand Ideology, not simply reduce it to material conditions or to class.

I agree, the whole argument between the two of them only made me lose braincells. Of course a streamer like Hasan isn't going to aim for semantic correctness when he's pushing for an election win for a Muslim candidate. So dont put that much weight on what he says.

The thing is, you do eventually have no choice but to interface with the cultural side along with the material side. Religion and culture are powerful things, and just by taking a side in this conflict for the longest time it meant seeming anti-jew to most of the Jewish and Christian population. This sucked because you then had to answer for bigots and the some of the most bigoted opinions in history. So the recent effort to decouple Judaism from Zionism in the media has been useful for getting around this bs.

I think the bitterness coming from the geneva_convention and fuknslammer types comes from the electoral candidates piggybacking on this success. They are vindicated by the failure of campaigns like Platner and betrayals of AOC and so making the Palestinian cause less appealing to western leftists is seen to them as "helping".

They also may be too bitter now from viewing too many settlers videos and when you see that kind of violence perpetrated by mostly one religious group, the conclusion is you become bigoted towards that group. Combating that should be a main priority for Jewish activists. They should be involved in their synagogue and advocate for canceling Zionist activities like going on birthright. If they aren't currently the face of Jewishness, they should start becoming the face of Jewishness. It isn't all on us to forgive and forget.

That was really basically what I was trying to get at. It sucks all the air out of the conversation trying to attribute blame.

whining that Judaism is separate and distinct from Zionism, and most Zionists aren't jewish and so on, is centering jewish feelings and crybully behavior that protects Zionist jewish institutions and people from anti-Zionism. There are many jewish institutions in the US and more in the UK that are linked to and materially support the Zionist entity and we can't be whining about needing to protect them from anti-Zionism.

What are you saying? Obviously Zionist institutions, Jewish and gentile, all need to be crushed. If a synagogue is holding auctions for Palestinian land, everyone and thing involved in that needs to be mercilessly torn down. Same with those Zionist Jewish summer camps and all the other ways Zionism has sought to hijack all Jewish culture and pervert it into something strictly oriented toward supporting Israel.

There's nothing "crybully" about observing this hijacking and not doing actual antisemitism by treating the religion of observing Jewish people as synonymous with a genocidal colonial project, because the logic of that would be fundamentally that we need to ban Judaism and put every Rabbi in prison, which we both understand is absurd. A meaningful number of Jewish people are antizionists -- personally, the most dedicated antizionist activists I've known are Jewish -- and that number is only growing. Conflating their religion or ethnicity with the project of Zionism like AIPAC and the ADL are literally working every day to encourage people to do is ideologically extremely backwards, whether you think any kind of victimhood of Jews is currently meaningful or meaningless (a point that I am not arguing).