Many academics I see online are leftist whereas many laypeople I see online are right wing.

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[–] 8 points 2 days ago (1 child)

Not who you're replying to, but sounds like Latin Americans are more familiar than the US by far with leftist populist dictators, Fidel Castro types... The cigar smoking kinda guys who inspired the game Tropico.

In the US, we teach that communism is a mortal enemy that only leads to starvation and we elect greedy oligarchs that promise life will get better eventually while they fill their pockets. Socialism is seen as the extreme anti-State solution where no one starves and everyone is educated. And any evidence to the contrary is considered conservative propaganda.

There's little room for nuance in the US. We went so far right that it feels like you have to move all the way left to fix things. And the more they call socialism the enemy, the better it sounds to people. The youth grow up thinking, either they support Trump or they're a socialist... He's probably doing more for socialism than American socialists ever did.

I swear just having free healthcare in the 90s could have prevented all this.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

    I kinda went on a rant here, lol, but feel free to not read. I have very similar opinions, but wanted to make a few points.

    The Fidel types are the more colorful examples, but we have many more. There's also the not-quite-dictators-but-dangerously-close- types, who make use of authoritarianism, media control, persecution of political adversaries, and shady democratic tactics such as Hugo Chavez & Maduro, Juan Domingo Peron, Evo Morales, Rafael Correa, Christina Kirchner, Lula da Silva (don't have enough info on this guy to put him in the same bag w the rest)... I'm sure some other latinamerican will see this and tell me the alternatives were far worse, and they'll likely be right, but I'd bet money NO latin american will dare tell me any of these were fair ethical leaders with the best interest of their country in mind.

    And I fully agree with your point. You guys went so far down right, (and you might hate me a bit for making this point) but your left parties are also the right wing. They might not cater to the same lobbyists, but it seems more and more to me than there is no true will to offer reasonable state services or social security nets for the vast majority of the population by either party of yours. The dems have been as much in bed with your highly toxic financial and pharma sectors as the republicans have for decades now. Your left wing politicians attempt to get elected by sending feel good messages to a comfortable middle class that wants to care but to not sacrifice anything of their own or even worse: to consort/share spaces with actual poor people.

    I'm talking the people who have half of the male members of their family in prison. I'm talking people who's entire family is unemployed and unemployable. Generational misery. The people under the bridge. Sex workers, foster care kids, people in trailer parks with no running water and the roughest parts of the ghettos.

    The actual poor people, ignorant and naive as they may be in many regards, saw right through charade of policies and philosophies that sound oh-so-humane but don't actually substantially help anyone in their precarious conditions, and said "fuck em", and in their anger, despair, naivete and ignorance went straight into the clutches of "the exact opposite of what I hate" and now we have Trump. I say we, because I consider my country a client/vassal state of the US.

    And yeah, free healthcare sounds so foreign and far away nowadays, doesn't it? Yet poorer countries pull it off relatively well. Horrible that we've gotten to this point of brainwashing by big industries/interest groups.

    I'm not sharing these thoughts to tell you your left wing is no good and nothing good can come from it. To the contrary. You guys (and we) need a strong, powerful and healthy left wing and I really really hope you can get there. I am, however, warning you against the perils of voting for "OMG THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE OF THIS" because in latina america we've seen that movie plenty of times and it ends in "so I guess now we have a dictator".

    Sorry for the rant. Just felt like sharing my thoughts in this regard.

    I truly wish you, your country and the world the very best, and I also think a healthy socialist system is the right path. Hopefully we get somewhere nice without any more atrocities happening.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 1 day ago

    My left leaning classmate also says that American left is also right. Unfortunately, I never got a popular enough left in my country. All parties are just right and far right.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    I agree with most of what you said, but there's one thing we STRONGLY disagree with, and that is Lula. The others you mentioned I either don't know enough to have a strong opinion or (most of them) wholeheartedly agree that are authoritarians with only their own interests in mind. But putting Lula in the same bag as those guys shows that either you don't know enough about him, or that you fell for the misinformation campaigns done by the Brazilian extreme right when trying to get elected.

    And I'm case we're not clear, I'm a latin american who lived during most of Lula's governments in Brazil and I think he is a fair and ethical leader with the best interest of its people in mind. And if I were allowed to vote in Brazil I would have voted for him, without a doubt.

    So, instead of assuming your information on him and trying to explain all of the policies he created through all of his governments, I'll ask you what makes you think he's like that?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago

    It's very safe to assume you're better informed about him than I am. There was definitely a smudging campaign that we caught a lot of here, and I don't remember the charges he did time for other than them vaguely being about 'corruption'. I think it's pretty safe to assume he was taking more than a little something on the side, as it would be with the vast majority of our presidents, but I won't hold that against him. I vaguely recall something about money laundering and a luxurious apartment. But anyway, that's not my issue with him. He had close ties with Christina Kirchner, which is well known to have had people killed for investigating her, and i remember something about him and her wanting to make some kind of latin american alliance thing which I consider a terrifying idea. There were also stuff about political persecution of the bolsonaro nutjob proteters but I'll take that with a big pinch of salt.

    Anyway, I'll take your word over mine and edit my post.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    Nah I read it all and fully agree. 🫡 Wishing you the best American sibling wherever you are. I still have some hope things can turn around but it's hard to see the light right now with corruption as rampant as it is.

    It's always a reminder to appreciate what you have right now, because I do think things will get worse before they get better. I don't take the relative peace, shelter, running water and electricity for granted, and I similarly shouldn't be terrified of a day coming when all that isn't available. Just good to prep some emergency cash and stuff when you can and ride out the bullshit best you can.

    I think I'm just sad that Trump won over as many Americans as he did with hate rhetoric, but can't say we weren't warned that this sentiment was building.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 child)

    Man, I really hope people read this and take it to heart. Comfortable middle class Westerner who wants “OMG THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE OF THIS” is the average Lemmy user.

    (That's me too, but only half way, and I don't want the complete opposite of anything)

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  • [–] 3 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    I'm comfortable enough too, compared to how things go for the lower percentiles here, but yeah. People freak out and overreact. Most lemmy people seem to be in a perpetual state of outrage and panic, which, you know, understandable, but the first people to get screwed in any crisis are the ones that panic. I've been making an effort to try to emotionally regulate the people I come across here the best I can when possible, but man.. it's challenging.

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