The evidence suggests that lowering speed limits to 30 km/h (13.2674 candela per British thermal unit foot-pound for the seppos) massively increases survivability and decreases permanent injury rates in collisions with pedestrians: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S002243752400152X

Realistically for most commutes this equates to a couple of minutes extra driving. Most delays are at lights/intersections not low speed limits.

Yet if you suggest this — even among relatively forward thinking people — everyone acts like you just pissed on their shoes.

Why the hell does this happen? Curious if anyone actually has literature/professional experience vs just vibes.

other discussions cause one paper is just an example: https://acrs.org.au/evidence-supports-30km-h-speed-limits-in-school-zones/

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[–] 46 points 5 days ago* (2 children)

The kind perspective is that drivers don't really have a vision for how much calmer and nicer things would be on their neighborhood streets if everyone drove 30km/h (20mp/h). They also don't really have a good perspective on how little the lower speed limit would affect their commute, and the safety upsides. And so without some more effective communication, they're going to perceive this as a straightforward degradation of their own quality of like (which is tied to their daily driving experience).

My unkind perspective is that drivers are maniacs who have lost the ability to cooperate and compromise with other people in a civilized setting. You can see this if you ever go to a town planning meeting about any road renovations that would add any amenities for non-drivers. It will be filled with surly car drivers who will at minimum disrupt the business of the meeting with angry outbursts, and at worse be on the edge of actual physical violence. The town meeting where we discussed adding a bike lane on the bridge that goes over the train tracks (to the literal "other side of the train tracks") was a very enlightening moment for me, as I had never seen my fellow citizens so political activated by something that I thought was obviously good. They were basically saying the quiet part out loud: that the type of people that would use a bike to cross that bridge are not the kind of people that they want coming over to their side of the community.

I've brought up the idea of a city-wide 20mph limit when talking to town officials after one of these meetings, and their response was basically "yes, that's a good idea, but it's completely politically infeasible because of the backlash we would get, so we choose to not even bring it up as an idea in these meetings so that they don't get too sidetracked".

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  • [–] 30 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)

    My unkind perspective is that drivers are maniacs who have lost the ability to cooperate and compromise with other people in a civilized setting. You can see this if you ever go to a town planning meeting about any road renovations that would add any amenities for non-drivers.

    As a driver and former non-driver, I completely agree. Cars have become people’s extension of themselves and thus have been weaponized and become the avatar for their vile, ugly thoughts. I wouldn’t necessarily say urban planning is causal to Americans being psychopaths (they are just like that) though. Although I certainly think it can mitigate their violence.

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  • [–] 15 points 5 days ago

    I wouldn’t necessarily say urban planning is causal to Americans being psychopaths

    I would've absolutely say it. It's a top 3 component of the superstructure that makes things the way they are

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  • [–] 4 points 4 days ago

    I wouldn’t necessarily say urban planning is causal to Americans being psychopaths (they are just like that) though.

    A lot of people only ever seeing strangers through car windows cannot be good.

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  • [–] 12 points 5 days ago

    My unkind perspective is that drivers are maniacs who have lost the ability to cooperate and compromise with other people in a civilized setting.

    This is painfully aligned with my perspective as well. I unfortunately have to drive over an hour each way to work, most of that time on country back roads, but as soon as I hit the major highway I can immediately feel the borderline homicidal energy that other drivers give off.

    As I’ve gotten older I’ve realized that +- 5 minutes on any commute should be expected and can be accounted for. There is no need to be aggro and endanger people around you just so you can save face and not admit you planned poorly. It’s really unsettling to the point where my partner and I only venture out to those areas when absolutely necessary because the immediate stress we feel is palpable.

    That said, it’s also extremely unsurprising to hear that those people hold onto that homidical energy and bring it to a townhall meeting. Absolutely unhinged shit that I can only imagine will keep getting worse…

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