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BBC blocked multiple times from serving Trump family members in defamation suit (www.standard.co.uk)
submitted 3 weeks ago by to c/politics@lemmy.world
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The BBC has failed multiple times to serve Donald Trump’s family members with legal orders in the US President’s defamation case against the broadcaster.

The national broadcaster has been attempting to subpoena Mr Trump’s son, Donald Trump Jr; his daughter, Ivanka Trump; and son-in-law, Jared Kushner, to require them to give evidence, however, multiple efforts have failed so far.

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[–] 48 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

There are legal consequences to receiving a legal order and ignoring it; essentially the other side just gets whatever they're asking for without your input.

Now imagine all the perfectly valid ways that a letter can be delivered but the person never sees it.

Now imagine all the sketchy ways someone could prevent that letter from actually reaching the person, so that they get a default judgement.

I think it's better this way, even though it allows nonsense like what the Trump spawn are doing, because assumptions about whether they actually knew are removed. Not to mention, at best it's just a delaying tactic; eventually the judge will accept a good faith attempt to serve them and issue a default judgement.

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  • [–] 17 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    In Sweden, If it's important mail with legal concerns, you'll get a letter or an SMS that you have a letter to pick up at the nearest service point. The same way as you pick up a parcel. When you get I, you'll have to ID and sign it, then it's considered delivered to you.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 weeks ago* (1 child)

    you'll get a letter

    A letter to tell you that you have a letter. Kind of funny.

    or an SMS

    You register your phone number with the government? That's not something we do in the US.

    When you get I, you'll have to ID and sign it, then it's considered delivered to you.

    Hypothetically speaking, what happens if you ignore the pre-letter or the SMS and never pick up the important mail? What happens if you refuse to sign for it?

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago

    Nope. You fan register your number at different agencies to get messages directly instead of ordinary email. So if it's from a court or law enforcement, it's usually a letter to pick up the letter.

    If you ignore it they'll usually send someone to serve you I think. Or maybe fine you if it's not super important. Not sure.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 weeks ago

    Adding to this, we all know the Hollywood portrayal of serving papers, and that one is real, but it's not the only one. Courts can and do approve alternate methods, including certified mail, email, and posting in local newspapers.

    Source: Legal Eagle coverage of Reckless Ben/Bricks and Minifigs saga. In this case, the judge allowed service by email.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (3 children)

    <EDIT>

    Okay guys, i get it :D

    I’ll take it as good news that such things didn’t occur to me. Guess there is no sketchy energy in this guy, haha.

    </EDIT>

    Now imagine all the perfectly valid ways that a letter can be delivered but the person never sees it.

    I honestly do not know a single one.
    I mean, there is not really a sketchy way to do that in germany (as far i know). Such important documents are usually sent as registered mail with proof of delivery. The mailman has to confirm that he did put it in the mailbox.

    You are usually given a period of a few weeks or months to respond. If you don't check the mailbox at your registered address regularly, then it's your own fault. From the point of view of the court, the letter was delivered. I feel that is very fair.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 weeks ago

    Not one? Not even "unknowingly threw it away with some junk mail" or "unknowingly dropped between the counter and the refrigerator"?

    The system in the US ensures someone has knowledge about a court order and the German system (as you have described it) assumes they do.

    Both have pros and cons, but I think I'd prefer the US system. Considering the consequences can be life altering, I think ensuring the person knows, instead of assuming they do, is worth the extra hassle.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Now imagine someone pretends to be you and signs for it. Imagine they steal it out of the letterbox after the carrier leaves. Now imagine that person was hired by the plaintiff, who now receives a default judgement.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago

    Imagine someone is hired to serve you and thousands of other people papers and just claims they did. Now imagine that person was hired by the plaintiff, who now receives a default judgement.

    This happens in the US, and sometimes the plaintiff deliberately chooses their process server to make it more likely.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago

    It's impossible to prove a negative. Even as recently as a month ago, I sent a birthday card to a friend in Germany and she said she hasn't gotten it yet.

    I've mailed her letters and cards before and she usually gets them in a week.

    I know she isn't lying.

    Imagine if this was a legal notice.

    I do understand what your saying but the possibility exists that a legal notice mailed to someone can be lost or misdelivered. The US has process servers where you can hire someone to serve legal papers to someone. In this case, the person notes the time and date of service.

    In the absolute worst cases, some courts allow service to occur in a newspaper. This often happens in divorces when one party cannot be located due to abandoning them.

    Most of the time in the US, service to their legal residence via certified mail that offers proof of delivery is usually enough for most cases.

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